Blue (G11) or red (G12) engine coolant?

Back to Cooling

From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Thu Nov 20 17:36 CST 1997
From:	Arthur Emerson <emerson at eideti dot com>
To:	gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com
Subject:	Re: Coolant Mishap, Maybe ?
Date:	Thu, 20 Nov 1997 18:28:05 -0500
	In a previous message, diamonds at talon dot net said: > > Took the golf in for the yearly required PA inspection this > morning and the mechanic topped off the coolant expansion > tank with fliud cause it was reading a little on the low side... > Even though mine is a 97 it had the blue coolant instead of the > red stuff ( why, i don't know ) and i'm not sure, but i think he may have > topped it off with the red stuff...looks alot darker in the tank now.... > Anyway to determine if this did occur? > What do you get when you mix red and blue? [The Netscape 4.03 mail editior isn't making friends with me right now.] What do you get? A nice little negligence suit! Was this a dealer, or the friendly neighborhood mechanic? If it was the latter, I would suspect that he might even have put the green stuff in. FYI, AFAIK, mixing anything but water with the blue G11 makes it brown. Your owner's manual warns against doing this, and the possible corrosion damage caused by such a screwup would have me parking my car until I knew for sure what they did. Do not mix red with blue, or either with green. Corrosion will result, and it may happen very quickly. If you want to change types of antifreeze, VW requires a complete system flush with water before the change. Yell at them real loud if they did screw this up..... -Arthur

From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Tue Nov 25 19:57 CST 1997
From:	"New Dimensions" <turbotim at newdimensions dot com>
To:	gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com, jettaglx at igtc dot COM, corrado-l at corrado-club dot com
Subject:	Tech-Coolant
Date:	Tue, 25 Nov 1997 16:30:35 +0000
Organization:	New Dimensions Ltd.
	Ian C. Vorster" <kamikaze at icon dot co.za> wrote : >can anyone tell me the difference between G11 and G12 coolant >besides the color. Hi everyone, Sorry I have not had time to contribute much lately but the holiday season is upon us and time is at a premium. I found some good info on the coolant problems. See it below. Also check out our new Holiday page http://www.newdimensions.com/Holspecl.htm Well have a nice Thanksgiving ! and I hope to chip in more soon. Unlike the previous coolant, this newly developed product permits a cooling system fill that lasts the service life of the engine and was designed with all-aluminum engines in mind. Advantages over previous coolant: Improved corrosion protection Improve thermal stability Improved heat transfer/control Improved hard water tolerance Improved environmental protection CAUTION!G 012 A8D A1 must NEVER be mixed with any other coolant. Engine damage will result ! G 012 A8D A1 is red in color.The mixture of G 012 A8D A1 and other colored coolants is immediately identifiable by discoloration (brown, purple etc.). If this mixture is used in an engine, a foamy deposit will appear in the expansion tank/radiator.This mixture is to be drained immediately and the cooling system flushed as described below. Flushing procedure :Engine at operating temperature (older vehicles with heater valve: heater on). Drain coolant . Apply compressed air to expansion tank or radiator to blow out remaining coolant. Close cooling system, fill with distilled water. Run engine for a minimum of 2 minutes. Drain water and apply compressed Air to expansion tank a before close cooling system and fill with appropriate mixture ratio of G 012 A8D A1and distilled water. Test drive, check coolant level and add if necessary. Note:G 012 A8D 01 coolant may be used in older vehicles when the original coolant is drained and cooling system flushed as described above. Inform customer that a new coolant Is used and that ONLY water or G 012 A8D A1 be used to replenish.CAUTION! Never re-use old coolant when performing engine repairs.Dispose of old coolant properly. Flushing as specified above, or engine damage resulting from the use of a mixture of G 012 A8D A1 and other coolants is not covered by the new vehicle warranty. turbotim at newdimensions dot com http://www.newdimensions.com/

From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Sun Feb 1 00:01 CST 1998
From:	collinsk at pacbell dot net (Kevin Collins)
To:	gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com (GTI-VR6 Mailing List)
Subject:	VW Specialties
Date:	Sun, 01 Feb 98 05:53:23 GMT
Organization:	New Dimensions Ltd.
	[... Stuff about what a good guy Ron Wood of VW Specialties is. VW Specialties is on Gothard in Huntington Beach, CA, open Tues-Fri. ] Footnote: when he bought the 2nd batch of cooland for my car, he bought the smaller bottles. The large bottle (gallon?) had no warning on it about mixing G11 & G12.. but the smaller bottle had a VERY stern warning in about 6 languages! -- Kevin Collins collinsk at pacbell dot net '97 GTI VR6

From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Fri Feb 13 20:48 CST 1998
From:	collinsk at pacbell dot net (Kevin Collins)
To:	storey at intr dot net, gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com
Subject:	Re: New VR6 Project
Date:	Sat, 14 Feb 98 02:41:13 GMT
Organization:	New Dimensions Ltd.
	On 2/13/98 12:25PM, in message <34E4AB96.3E4B at intr dot net>, Jeff Storey <storey at intr dot net> wrote: > If you or anyone you know have had to replace your headgasket (or your > head because of corrosion.) Please let me know. Photos of the head > corrosion would be ideal! I think this info will be helpful for all VR6 > owners when I finish it. I'll keep you posted. Thanks to this problem being pointed out by TurboTim, I had my G11 flushed out at my 30k service (14 months). Ron Wood at VW Specialties, quite the knowledgeable VW-Audi gearhead, had not heard of this problem when I alerted him, so he checked with one of his VW contacts.. who sure enuf confirmed that it was a REAL good idea to switch to G12. So it is done, and now Ron knows to do this for his other customers... -- Kevin Collins collinsk at pacbell dot net '97 GTI VR6

From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Sat Feb 14 17:09 CST 1998
From:	collinsk at pacbell dot net (Kevin Collins)
To:	Bunmar at aol dot com, gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com, jettaglx at igtc dot com
Subject:	Re: G11 vs. G12
Date:	Sat, 14 Feb 98 23:01:15 GMT
Organization:	New Dimensions Ltd.
	On 2/14/98 2:23PM, in message <256d269a.34e61948 at aol dot com>, Bunmar at aol dot com wrote: > I haven't looked in my engine compartment lately (bad me). Anyway, I was > curious about the G11 and G12 coolant that everyone's talking about. Did all > VW's come with G11? VR6's? 4 cyl's? I have a '98 and am curious if I should > worry about this coolant. They switched mid-year in '97 - so you're set, you've got G12. The G11 is blue (or green?), G12 is pink/red.. easy way to tell them apart. -- Kevin Collins collinsk at pacbell dot net '97 GTI VR6

From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Fri Feb 20 19:11 CST 1998
From:	Arthur Emerson <emerson at eideti dot com>
To:	gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com
Subject:	Debate: G11 versus G12 antifreeze
Date:	Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:55:34 -0500
Organization:	New Dimensions Ltd.
	Sorry to re-open this topic, but I just had a very interesting debate with the local VW/Audi Master Mechanic and all-around Teutonic Guru about the G11 corrosion issue. It all started when I asked him if he would do the G11 -> G12 conversion for me, and he said NO! He had plenty of arguments against the grassy knoll theory and other things that we discussed on the list, and here's what he said. Q: Is G12 really GM Dexcool(?) ??? A: [He got a chuckle out of the suggestion that VW decided to take the Lopez settlement with GM out in antifreeze.] He said that he has personally compared the material safety data sheets, and they are not the same stuff. He has been trying to second-source G12, and hasn't found it yet. The GM stuff is cheaper than G12, and he'd be selling it in a minute if it was the same. Q: Who makes G11??? A: G11 is made by Pentosin (Pentasin?) for VW, and he has cases of it in his shop in Pentosin bottles. He also carries their complete line of synthetic oil, which includes endorsements by every German auto manufacturer on the label. [The price he was asking makes Redline oil look cheap.] Anyway, the Pentosin bottle says that it must be changed every two years. He says that he never saw a single case of G11 corroding or eating a head, and wrote this whole debate off as an Internet wive's tale. Q: What about these numerous reports of corrosion? A: At PDI, the tech generally tops off the car with straight G11. He claims that this could very well lead to corrosion. You should never use more than 60% G11 and 40% water. He showed me Audi service documentation on the subject. Likewise, you should never have less than 40% G11 in your radiator. The mixture is what provides the best heat transfer, and too much or too little really hurts. [Personally, I find it hard to believe that most dealers would open a bottle of expensive antifreeze when a splash of water would do the same thing for free.] Q: Why did VW develop G12, if there was nothing wrong with G11??? A: VW changed the head gaskets mid-production in 1997, and G11 didn't agree too well with the new head gasket material. The new head gaskets are all metal. G12 is only in the cars with the new head gasket. Q: Why can't I change to G12??? A: He claims first-hand experience in G12 eating the head gasket of a car that was switched from the factory fill of G11. He said that the cooling system was evacuted, and flushed with water before the change. The G11 is soaked into the gaskets, and can't be flushed out of them quickly. When the G12 meets the G11-soaked gaskets, he says they turn to mush in a few weeks. I grabbed a VW bottle of G12 from his shelf, and it did say lifetime coolant. Here's the strange part - the label of the bottle said that it was not to be used two years after the born-on date on the cap! How can a "lifetime" antifreeze only have a two-year shelf life?!?!? Go to your local dealer and check out the bottle for yourself! I have oftentimes questioned his take on a particular subject, but he is vehemently against changing my car from G11 to G12. He refused to do it, even if I paid him! You can tell from watching him work that he truly cares for each VW that he works on. I trust his sincerity that changing is not a good idea, even if the logic isn't perfect. Does anyone have documentation that I can carry back to him on this subject, or feel the need to rebut anything he said???? -Arthur

From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Sat Feb 21 10:22 CST 1998
From:	Uwe Ross <uwe.ross at pobox dot com>
To:	gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com
Subject:	Debate: G11 versus G12 antifreeze
Date:	Sat, 21 Feb 1998 10:29:06 -0500
Organization:	becnet.com
	> Subject: Debate: G11 versus G12 antifreeze > From: Arthur Emerson <emerson at eideti dot com> > Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:55:34 -0500 > > [My VW Guru] says that he never saw a single > case of G11 corroding or eating a head, and wrote this whole debate > off as an Internet wive's tale. I've seen a head wih serious corrosion with my own two eyes. So have several other people. If Todd Sager still has that head off, I'll happily run down there and shoot some pictures and post them. -Uwe-

From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Sat Feb 21 10:29 CST 1998
From:	AWE16VR6 at aol dot com
To:	gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com
Subject:	Re: Debate: G11 versus G12 antifreeze
Date:	Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:12:43 EST
Organization:	becnet.com
	<<Sorry to re-open this topic, but I just had a very interesting debate with the local VW/Audi Master Mechanic and all-around Teutonic Guru [...] Does anyone have documentation that I can carry back to him on this subject, or feel the need to rebut anything he said???? - -Arthur>> Hey Arthur, I have a few problems with these statements. First, if the corrosion is a result of an overconcentrated mixture of G-11, how come the corrosion only occurs on VR6 heads? I have *never* seen this extent of corrosion on any 8V or 16V head that I've serviced! Yet, every single VR6 head that I've removed has had corrosion at the coolant passages to various degrees. I've serviced 4cyl heads that had been run on straight ethyl glycol, propolyne glycol, and water, or a combination of all of the above, yet the corrosion issue had never surfaced until the VR6. Second, I've switched many VR6s to G-12 from either G-11 or the green stuff and have yet to see related gasket failure. So I think if the proper flushing procedure is followed, this is not a factor. I purchase VR6 head gaskets directly from the dealer (warehouse has not started stocking them), and get the latest supercession. I have not seen this all metal version that your mechanic talks about. I'm home now, so I don't have part numbers, but I'll double check on Monday. My understanding is that the coolant spec change was directly related to head corrosion, which *will* junk the head if it continues to spread to the fire rings. I have not serviced a VR6 head that was only run on G-12, so I really can't say that the reformulated coolant does in fact eliminate corrosion. I can say, though, that the corrosion issue is a real one, and is happening frequently. If the G-12 stops it, then by all means do the switch. Regards, Todd Air & Water VW Tuning Philadelphia

From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Sun Feb 22 19:25 CST 1998
From:	deecee at exit109 dot com
To:	Steve Thompson <was: st140vi at wcnet dot org, now: stevet at toast dot net>
Subject:	Re: why did vw switch G11 versus G12 antifreeze
Date:	Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:08:52 -0500
Cc:	gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com
Organization:	becnet.com
	At 07:24 PM 2/22/98 -0500, you wrote: > >From: Holland J. Phillips[SMTP:hjp at pacbell dot net] >Sent: Sunday, February 22, 1998 7:07 PM >To: Kevin Collins; turbotim at newdimensions dot com; gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com; Uwe Ross >Subject: Re: Debate: G11 versus G12 antifreeze > > >customers), I'm putting my money on the G11 being the culprit (plus, why >would VW change coolants, anyway, if there was no problem?). > > >According to my dealer, the switch was for strictly environmental reasons. > Steve > > Steve, I found the TSB that pertains to G11 and G12. It is in Group 19 Number 96-01 Dated 10/30/96 According to the bulletin the change came about in German cars 7-96 and Mexican cars 01-97 The benefits were improved corrosion protection,improved thermal stability,improved heat control,improved hard water tolerance, and enviornmental prtotection. Other than this TDB I couldnot find any other information as to why the change. Don

From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Mon Feb 23 15:49 CST 1998
From:	"New Dimensions" <turbotim at newdimensions dot com>
To:	gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com
Subject:	Coolant info
Date:	Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:32:09 +0000
Organization:	New Dimensions Ltd.
	collinsk at sprintmail dot com (Kevin Collins) writes: >And Tim has apparently seen a bunch of 'em, so I think the guy >who was adamant that they "don't exist" is, uh, mistaken. >Comments anyone?? Tim??? yes we have seen many. Here is a factory info sheet on this stuff direct from VW Unlike the previous coolant, this newly developed product permits a cooling system fill that lasts the service life of the engine and was designed with all-aluminum engines in mind. Advantages over previous coolant: Improved corrosion protection Improve thermal stability Improved heat transfer/control Improved hard water tolerance Improved environmental protection CAUTION!G 012 A8D A1 must NEVER be mixed with any other coolant. Engine damage will result ! G 012 A8D A1 is red in color.The mixture of G 012 A8D A1 and other colored coolants is immediately identifiable by discoloration (brown, purple etc.). If this mixture is used in an engine, a foamy deposit will appear in the expansion tank/radiator.This mixture is to be drained immediately and the cooling system flushed as described below. Flushing procedure :Engine at operating temperature (older vehicles with heater valve: heater on). Drain coolant . Apply compressed air to expansion tank or radiator to blow out remaining coolant. Close cooling system, fill with distilled water. Run engine for a minimum of 2 minutes. Drain water and apply compressed Air to expansion tank a before close cooling system and fill with appropriate mixture ratio of G 012 A8D A1and distilled water. Test drive, check coolant level and add if necessary. Note:G 012 A8D 01 coolant may be used in older vehicles when the original coolant is drained and cooling system flushed as described above. Inform customer that a new coolant Is used and that ONLY water or G 012 A8D A1 be used to replenish.CAUTION! Never re-use old coolant when performing engine repairs.Dispose of old coolant properly. Flushing as specified above, or engine damage resulting from the use of a mixture of G 012 A8D A1 and other coolants is not covered by the new vehicle warranty.

From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Wed Feb 25 00:46 CST 1998
From:	VR6PAUL at aol dot com
To:	gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com
Subject:	[gti-vr6] G11 Vs G12 Coolant
Date:	Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:33:32 EST
Organization:	New Dimensions Ltd.
	I checked the "alldata" TSB index and found TSB 199601 "New Coolant" under the 95 Golf with the 2.8L engine listed. According to what someone sent earlier the TSB basically said the G11 causes corrosion and to switch to the G12. Can someone confirm this? Additionally, what mixture is suggested? Someone stated the Bentley stated to use 35% G12 and 65% distilled water for "warm" areas. However, the G12 bottle states do not go less than 40% G12. I don't have a Bentley manual, can anyone shed some light? Thanks, Paul 95 VW GTI VR6 37K

From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Thu Feb 26 13:59 CST 1998
From:	Uwe Ross <uwe.ross at pobox dot com>
To:	GTI-VR6 at dev dot tivoli.com
Subject:	[gti-vr6] Re: When was the switch fro G11
Date:	Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:15:52 -0500
Cc:	TH34303 at swt dot edu
Organization:	becnet.com
	> Subject: [gti-vr6] When was the switch fro G11 > From: TH34303 at swt dot edu > Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:29:06 -0600 (CST) > > Sorry, I don't remeber who asked about production dates and the G11, G12 debate > but mine has a build date of 1/97 and I have the G11, dammit! Guess I have an > excuse to buy a big valve head now! The cutover is either in 12/96 or 1/97. I've got reports of some 12/96 cars that came with G12, but also some 1/97 cars that came with G11. Very strange... I doubut you have an excuse to buy a big-valve head yet. But leave the G11 in there for another 5 years and you just might...<g> -Uwe-

From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Wed Feb 25 13:32 CST 1998
From:	Adam Newlin <axn110 at psu dot edu>
To:	gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com
Subject:	[gti-vr6] G12 straight from the horses mouth
Date:	Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:09:41 -0500
Organization:	becnet.com
	hey all, Just thought you guys might want to see VW's official explanation on their web site. it's at http://www3.vw.com/owners/magazines/parts/partsmain3.htm Adam

From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Mon Apr 20 15:20 CDT 1998
From:	Jason_Leone at amat dot com
To:	gti-vr6-digest at dev dot tivoli.com
Subject:	[gti-vr6] Re: G11->G12 issues (again)
Date:	Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:03:47 -0700
Organization:	becnet.com
	Jim, In order for your factory warranty to be voided by switching coolant, a couple things must be proved: 1) That an unauthorized party (you) performed the procedure. 2) That due to that unathorized service, something that failed was a direct result of the coolant replacement not being done properly. Legal Recommendation: Have a factory authorized repair service do the procedure. Keep all documentation for your records. Reality: Do the job yourself, you'll save a lot of money in labor costs. Get the G12 from an Audi dealership (usually cheaper, believe it or not) or VW dealership. Inspect the container to ensure that it's the correct fluid. Go to a drug store, or grocery store and pick up a dozen gallons of distilled water. Now's a good time to install a low temp thermostat and fan switch, while you're draining the coolant system. General rule of thumb-premix coolant and water to a 50:50 solution. Search the archives for the complete switch procedure (Todd from AWE just posted it about a month ago). FYI, this is what Chris from ND has to share on the topic: Last tip for the cooling system-VR6s run HOT. Change your coolant and install a low temp fanswitch(remove the battery to make it easy). The thermostat is also a good idea-but I only recommend it if you have over 60k and you replace all three pcs of the plastic thermostat housing. These things leak like crazy! replace all the seals and don't use goop on any of it except at the mount to the head( I prefer aviation sealer - the brown stuff in the little can) Anyway, the fanswitch cycles the fan sooner and longer and end result is that your gauge which normal reads about 230 can drop as much as 10-15 degrees. It seems that all the car's gauges read a little different. O.K., now my opinion about this G11 to G12 changeover. In order to understand this better, I'll tell you what I know about coolant. Buy only high quality antifreeze-cheap brands can be straight ethylene glycol minus important corrosion inhibitors and lubricants. ALWAYS mix 50/50 with water(preferably distilled) or follow ratio recommend for your climate. Never top off coolant tank with straight coolant-preferrably small amount of distilled water or your 50/50 mixture. Use common sense, large amount missing means that if you refill, you are going to throw off the glycol to water ratio, and it is very important. Antifreeze should never exceed 65%. Exceeding 85% will cause the silicates to drop out of suspension and goo up to clog the radiator and reduce heat transfer. VW recommends the water and compressed air treatment to upgrade to G12 because up to a third of the coolant is still trapped in the heater core and the engine after you pull a hose or the drain cock. This flush ensures that you are removing all accumulated rust, scale,silicate buildup and old coolant as best as possible. By the way, the blue and red coolant will foam up and turn brown in your expansion tank if you mix them or don't get all the G11 out. The degree of corrosion that takes place in your VW depends upon the type of minerals and alloys in the engine and radiator, and the acidity or alkalinity of the coolant. So long as your coolant remains alkaline, corrosion will be held to a minimum. Conversely, acidic coolant hastens the corrosion process that occurs between the cast iron and the aluminum present in the engine and radiator. The corrosion inhibiting chemicals that are added to you coolant is what keeps the alkalinity on the high side of the Ph scale. That's why adding aftermarket wetters and boosters is not smart because you are altering the already unknown alkalinity of your coolant(no matter how new, it varies depending on mix ratio, mineral content, additive content) More important, this alkalinity ratio doesn't have to be bigger to be better-it just needs staying power. This is measured as alkalinity reserve(how long your coolant can resist corrosion) The enemies of your coolant are heat, dissolved oxygen and minerals which react with the metal surfaces in your engine depleting the capacity of the coolant to resist becoming acidic. Therefore, changing the coolant annually or at least bi-annually guarantees that you never exceed the coolants ability to resist corrosion. European car makers like VW specify coolant additives lacking in phosphates and including borates and low silicates because their water is harder and it reacts with phosphates to create calcium and magnesium deposits. The Japanese disagree and specify high in phosphates and low in borates and silicates because they fear lack of maintenance will cause borate corrosion. This is the reason you see the little "phosphate free coolant " only from vw under the expansion tank cap-or it will void mf's warranty. It seems that in my opinion, the original G11 coolant must have been a poor acidic retardant-either from the reaction to the water installed from the factory and/or an additive package that was insufficient to go more than a couple of years on North American water. Mixing the two coolants causes problems because you get saturation of the silicates and gelling inside the engine, thus the specific ritual flush with water and compressed air. I firmly believe that no matter what proportion VW used for an additives package with the G12 coolant, it too should be flushed out and refilled every year or two. Considering that it isn't that much work and it beats playing with litmus paper and rebuilding your cylinder head. By the way, the corrosion we usually see on VR6s is surface etching that rubs away to leave pits-almost always around any flange that attaches to the head, or on the water jack inlets comprising the head gasket. They're usually good to go because they are far enough away from critical sealing areas, but we do replace heads when they are questionable. I really doubt that the new metal gasket is the reason for the G12. There is actually no bare metal on the gasket and all the passages have sealer from the factory around them. I think the reason was simply that G11 didn't provide long enough reserve capacity and coupled with poor maintenance, they were getting too many warranty problems. And now you know, the rest is up to you. I don't think the warranty issue should stop you from doing it yourself. When in doubt, call VWofA, but don't surrender the important info (VIN#, etc). Be vague, if they want specifics, your inquries will be recorded in the computer system. Beware. Jason '93 SLC -- For info on: how to subscribe & unsubscribe, the list's mailing errors, list archive, etc. see: http://www.panix.com/~aqn/gti_vr6_list/

From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Wed Apr 29 18:12 CDT 1998
From:	xjosh <xjosh at one dot net>
To:	bovenmye at mr dot med.ge.com (Jim Bovenmyer 4-6640), gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com
Subject:	Re: [gti-vr6] German VW coolant info on web...
Date:	Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:57:53 -0400
Cc:	bryan at csd dot uwm.edu, gtivr6r at chicagonet dot net, douglas.carter at platinum dot com,
Organization:	becnet.com
	At 05:27 PM 4/29/98 -0500, Jim Bovenmyer 4-6640 wrote: >I went hunting for some info. This page is in German but seems to have some >info on the G48 (G11?) coolant. Can anyone translate? > >http://www.basf.de/basf/html/d/produkte/gebiete/glysanti/protect.htm Here's what AltaVista says about the main text: Glysantine protect Plus/G48 is the nitrite-free radiator protective agent on the market with most permissions of the Kfz manufacturers. With its thought out inhibitor package it offers to outstanding protection from frost, rust and overheating. And which is quite most Kfz manufacturers, should be cheap each driver. Permissions: Glysantine protect Plus/G48 is recommended by prominent car manufacturers: Audi, BMW, German Federal Armed Forces, KHD, MAN ONE, Mercedes Benz, MTU, OPEL/GENERAL of engine, Porsche, Saab, Seat, Skoda, VW. Guidance: Protect Plus/G48 and water in the ratio 1:1 (or according to mixing table) empty, rinse cooling system and with glysantine fill and every 2 years change. (absolutely consider the manual of the vehicle!) -- Josh xjosh at one dot net -- For info on: how to subscribe & unsubscribe, the list's mailing errors, list archive, etc. see: http://www.panix.com/~aqn/gti_vr6_list/

From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Wed Apr 29 21:29 CDT 1998
From:	Uwe Ross <uwe.ross at pobox dot com>
To:	gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com
Subject:	Re: [gti-vr6] German VW coolant info on web...
Date:	Wed, 29 Apr 1998 22:18:45 -0400
Organization:	Ross-House
	Computer programs still do lousy translations. Here's mine: *********** Glysantin Protect Plus/G48 is the nitrite-free coolant that has more manufacturer's appovals than any other on the market. With it's advanced [corrosion] inhibitor package, it offers excellent protection from freezing, rust, and overheating. And what's right for the most manufaturers should be affordable for every driver. Approvals: Glysantin Protect Plus/G48 is recommended by the following manufacturers: Audi, BMW, Bundeswehr, KHD, MAN, Mercedes-Benz, MTU, Opel/General Motors, Porsche, Saab, Seat, Skoda, VW. Directions: Drain cooling system, flush, and fill with a mixture of Glysantin Protect Plus/G48 and water in a 1:1 ratio (or according to the mixture table) and change every 2 years. (It is essential to comply with the vehicle manufacturer's service recomendations) *********** -Uwe- -- For info on: how to subscribe & unsubscribe, the list's mailing errors, list archive, etc. see: http://www.panix.com/~aqn/gti_vr6_list/

From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Wed Sep 30 01:48 CDT 1998
From:	h.young1 at genie dot com
To:	gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com
Subject:	[gti-vr6] G-11, does it exist
Date:	Wed, 30 Sep 98 05:54:00 GMT
	The hunt for G11 -- latest in the saga (or, what's the definition of "absurd"?): While out at lunch today, I got voice mail from a VW/Audi customer service rep at VWoA. The message stated that the coolant I needed for my '95 GTI- VR6 was "definately G11". Okie-dokie. In the mean time, I'd emailed an order for G11 to Suntrup VW dealership (www.suntrup.com) specifying ONLY the part number ZVW-237-104. They call me at work about an hour after VWoA calls and tell me ZVW-237-104 is the part number for G11 coolant (DUH) and BTW, hadn't I been in there looking for that last Friday? I said, "Yes," and reminded the parts dude that he'd told me there was "no such thing" as G11 and he'd never heard of it, blah blah. He then tells me that ZVW-237-104 has been replaced by ZVW-237-105, the G48 coolant, and they have that in stock and come and get it. I tell the parts dude that I just got word from VWoA Customer Service that what I need is "definately G11". The parts dude tells me that VWoA doesn't know what they are talking about. (Possible, I grant you.) I remind him that he told me there was no such thing as G11 even though it is in the owner's manual, on the filler tank, and there is a part number for it (tactful, eh?). I also remind him he told me that G48 is not "lifetime." I inform him that G11 is "lifetime", and so, how can G48 replace it? Next, I ask the big question: Are the two compatable? Will there be problems if I try to add G48 to G11? He stammers, finally admitting he doesn't know. #@$%&@#!!! I called the VWoA Customer Service person back and left voice mail asking about G11 vs. G48. We'll wait and see. Hopefully I won't be out if/when they call back so I can fully discuss this and share my innermost feelings. |-> HWY -- For info on: how to subscribe & unsubscribe, the list's tech/how-to library, etc. see: http://www.panix.com/~aqn/GTI_VR6/gti_vr6_list/

From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Fri Oct 2 00:32 CDT 1998
From:	h.young1 at genie dot com
To:	gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com
Subject:	[gti-vr6] G-11, does it exist
Date:	Fri, 2 Oct 98 04:13:00 GMT
	VWoA called back today and gave me the part number for G-11 -- the one I already had (ZVW-237-104). I tried to explain that the dealers don't know what that is, no longer carried that, had G-48 instead (ZVW-237-105). I gave them that part number. VWoA had never heard of G-48 and that part number did not show up in their computer! Again EMPHASIZED that my main concern was/is are the same and/or compatable because the dealers sure didn't know. They said that they'd call back. Two hours later they called back and said that the part number I gave them for G-48 was G-11. The two were the same even though they now have a different part number and a different "G" number on the container. Why'd they change the numbers? Still sounds fishey to me. I am now going to have to ass-u-me that all this is right. It still astounds me that three dealership part's dept's had never heard of G-11, VWoA had never heard of G-48, and that they change a part number and letter designator on a substance (coolant) but make no change to the coolant. I give up. I also wish Arthur Emerson all the luck of the gods in dealing with these people. HWY -- For info on: how to subscribe & unsubscribe, the list's tech/how-to library, etc. see: http://www.panix.com/~aqn/GTI_VR6/gti_vr6_list/