Blue (G11) or red (G12) engine coolant?

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From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Thu Nov 20 17:36 CST 1997
From: Arthur Emerson <emerson at eideti dot com>
To: gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com
Subject: Re: Coolant Mishap, Maybe ?
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 18:28:05 -0500
 

In a previous message, diamonds at talon dot net said:
>
> Took the golf in for the yearly required PA inspection this
> morning and the mechanic topped off the coolant expansion
> tank with fliud cause it was reading a little on the low side...
> Even though mine is a 97 it had the blue coolant instead of the
> red stuff ( why, i don't know ) and i'm not sure, but i think he may have
> topped it off with the red stuff...looks alot darker in the tank now....
> Anyway to determine if this did occur?
> What do you get when you mix red and blue?

[The Netscape 4.03 mail editior isn't making friends with me right now.]

What do you get? A nice little negligence suit! Was this a dealer, or
the friendly neighborhood mechanic? If it was the latter, I would
suspect that he might even have put the green stuff in.

FYI, AFAIK, mixing anything but water with the blue G11 makes it brown.
Your owner's manual warns against doing this, and the possible corrosion
damage caused by such a screwup would have me parking my car until I
knew for sure what they did. Do not mix red with blue, or either with
green. Corrosion will result, and it may happen very quickly. If you
want to change types of antifreeze, VW requires a complete system flush
with water before the change.

Yell at them real loud if they did screw this up.....

-Arthur









From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Tue Nov 25 19:57 CST 1997
From: "New Dimensions" <turbotim at newdimensions dot com>
To: gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com, jettaglx at igtc dot COM, corrado-l at corrado-club dot com
Subject: Tech-Coolant
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 16:30:35 +0000
Organization: New Dimensions Ltd.
 

Ian C. Vorster" <kamikaze at icon dot co.za> wrote :
>can anyone tell me the difference between G11 and G12 coolant
>besides the color.

Hi everyone, Sorry I have not had time to contribute much lately but
the holiday season is upon us and time is at a premium. I found some
good info on the coolant problems. See it below. Also check out our
new Holiday page http://www.newdimensions.com/Holspecl.htm
Well have a nice Thanksgiving ! and I hope to chip in more soon.

Unlike the previous coolant, this newly developed product permits a
cooling system fill that lasts the service life of the engine and
was designed with all-aluminum engines in mind.

Advantages over previous coolant:
Improved corrosion protection
Improve thermal stability
Improved heat transfer/control
Improved hard water tolerance
Improved environmental protection
CAUTION!G 012 A8D A1 must NEVER be mixed with any other coolant.
Engine damage will result !
G 012 A8D A1 is red in color.The mixture of G 012 A8D A1 and other
colored coolants is immediately identifiable by discoloration (brown,
purple etc.). If this mixture is used in an engine, a foamy deposit
will appear in the expansion tank/radiator.This mixture is to be
drained immediately and the cooling system flushed as described
below.

Flushing procedure :Engine at operating temperature (older vehicles
with heater valve: heater on). Drain coolant .
Apply compressed air to expansion tank or radiator to blow out
remaining coolant. Close cooling system, fill with distilled water.
Run engine for a minimum of 2 minutes. Drain water and apply
compressed Air to expansion tank a before close cooling system and
fill with appropriate mixture ratio of G 012 A8D A1and distilled
water. Test drive, check coolant level and add if necessary.
Note:G 012 A8D 01 coolant may be used in older vehicles when the
original coolant is drained and cooling system flushed as described
above. Inform customer that a new coolant Is used and that ONLY water
or G 012 A8D A1 be used to replenish.CAUTION! Never re-use old
coolant when performing engine repairs.Dispose of old coolant
properly. Flushing as specified above, or engine damage resulting
from the use of a mixture of G 012 A8D A1 and other coolants is not
covered by the new vehicle warranty.
turbotim at newdimensions dot com
http://www.newdimensions.com/









From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Sun Feb 1 00:01 CST 1998
From: collinsk at pacbell dot net (Kevin Collins)
To: gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com (GTI-VR6 Mailing List)
Subject: VW Specialties
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 98 05:53:23 GMT
Organization: New Dimensions Ltd.
 

[... Stuff about what a good guy Ron Wood of VW Specialties is.
VW Specialties is on Gothard in Huntington Beach, CA, open Tues-Fri. ]

Footnote: when he bought the 2nd batch of cooland for my car, he bought the smaller
bottles. The large bottle (gallon?) had no warning on it about mixing G11 & G12.. but
the smaller bottle had a VERY stern warning in about 6 languages!

--
Kevin Collins
collinsk at pacbell dot net
'97 GTI VR6










From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Fri Feb 13 20:48 CST 1998
From: collinsk at pacbell dot net (Kevin Collins)
To: storey at intr dot net, gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com
Subject: Re: New VR6 Project
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 98 02:41:13 GMT
Organization: New Dimensions Ltd.
 

On 2/13/98 12:25PM, in message <34E4AB96.3E4B at intr dot net>, Jeff Storey
<storey at intr dot net> wrote:

> If you or anyone you know have had to replace your headgasket (or your
> head because of corrosion.) Please let me know. Photos of the head
> corrosion would be ideal! I think this info will be helpful for all VR6
> owners when I finish it. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks to this problem being pointed out by TurboTim, I had my G11 flushed out at my
30k service (14 months). Ron Wood at VW Specialties, quite the knowledgeable
VW-Audi gearhead, had not heard of this problem when I alerted him, so he checked
with one of his VW contacts.. who sure enuf confirmed that it was a REAL good idea to
switch to G12. So it is done, and now Ron knows to do this for his other customers...

--
Kevin Collins
collinsk at pacbell dot net
'97 GTI VR6










From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Sat Feb 14 17:09 CST 1998
From: collinsk at pacbell dot net (Kevin Collins)
To: Bunmar at aol dot com, gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com, jettaglx at igtc dot com
Subject: Re: G11 vs. G12
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 98 23:01:15 GMT
Organization: New Dimensions Ltd.
 

On 2/14/98 2:23PM, in message <256d269a.34e61948 at aol dot com>, Bunmar at aol dot com
wrote:

> I haven't looked in my engine compartment lately (bad me). Anyway, I was
> curious about the G11 and G12 coolant that everyone's talking about. Did all
> VW's come with G11? VR6's? 4 cyl's? I have a '98 and am curious if I should
> worry about this coolant.

They switched mid-year in '97 - so you're set, you've got G12. The G11 is blue (or
green?), G12 is pink/red.. easy way to tell them apart.

--
Kevin Collins
collinsk at pacbell dot net
'97 GTI VR6










From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Fri Feb 20 19:11 CST 1998
From: Arthur Emerson <emerson at eideti dot com>
To: gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com
Subject: Debate: G11 versus G12 antifreeze
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:55:34 -0500
Organization: New Dimensions Ltd.
 

Sorry to re-open this topic, but I just had a very interesting debate
with the local VW/Audi Master Mechanic and all-around Teutonic Guru
about the G11 corrosion issue. It all started when I asked him
if he would do the G11 -> G12 conversion for me, and he said NO!
He had plenty of arguments against the grassy knoll theory and other
things that we discussed on the list, and here's what he said.

Q: Is G12 really GM Dexcool(?) ???

A: [He got a chuckle out of the suggestion that VW decided to take
the Lopez settlement with GM out in antifreeze.] He said that he has
personally compared the material safety data sheets, and they are not
the same stuff. He has been trying to second-source G12, and hasn't
found it yet. The GM stuff is cheaper than G12, and he'd be selling
it in a minute if it was the same.


Q: Who makes G11???

A: G11 is made by Pentosin (Pentasin?) for VW, and he has cases of
it in his shop in Pentosin bottles. He also carries their complete
line of synthetic oil, which includes endorsements by every German
auto manufacturer on the label. [The price he was asking makes
Redline oil look cheap.] Anyway, the Pentosin bottle says that it
must be changed every two years. He says that he never saw a single
case of G11 corroding or eating a head, and wrote this whole debate
off as an Internet wive's tale.


Q: What about these numerous reports of corrosion?

A: At PDI, the tech generally tops off the car with straight G11.
He claims that this could very well lead to corrosion.
You should never use more than 60% G11 and 40% water. He showed
me Audi service documentation on the subject. Likewise, you
should never have less than 40% G11 in your radiator.
The mixture is what provides the best heat transfer, and too
much or too little really hurts.

[Personally, I find it hard to believe that most dealers would open
a bottle of expensive antifreeze when a splash of water would do the
same thing for free.]


Q: Why did VW develop G12, if there was nothing wrong with G11???

A: VW changed the head gaskets mid-production in 1997, and G11
didn't agree too well with the new head gasket material.
The new head gaskets are all metal. G12 is only in the cars
with the new head gasket.


Q: Why can't I change to G12???

A: He claims first-hand experience in G12 eating the head gasket of
a car that was switched from the factory fill of G11. He said
that the cooling system was evacuted, and flushed with water before
the change. The G11 is soaked into the gaskets, and can't be
flushed out of them quickly. When the G12 meets the G11-soaked
gaskets, he says they turn to mush in a few weeks.

I grabbed a VW bottle of G12 from his shelf, and it did say lifetime
coolant. Here's the strange part - the label of the bottle said
that it was not to be used two years after the born-on date on
the cap! How can a "lifetime" antifreeze only have a two-year
shelf life?!?!? Go to your local dealer and check out the bottle
for yourself!

I have oftentimes questioned his take on a particular subject, but
he is vehemently against changing my car from G11 to G12. He
refused to do it, even if I paid him! You can tell from watching
him work that he truly cares for each VW that he works on. I trust
his sincerity that changing is not a good idea, even if the logic
isn't perfect.

Does anyone have documentation that I can carry back to him on this
subject, or feel the need to rebut anything he said????

-Arthur










From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Sat Feb 21 10:22 CST 1998
From: Uwe Ross <uwe.ross at pobox dot com>
To: gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com
Subject: Debate: G11 versus G12 antifreeze
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 10:29:06 -0500
Organization: becnet.com
 

> Subject: Debate: G11 versus G12 antifreeze
> From: Arthur Emerson <emerson at eideti dot com>
> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:55:34 -0500
>
> [My VW Guru] says that he never saw a single
> case of G11 corroding or eating a head, and wrote this whole debate
> off as an Internet wive's tale.

I've seen a head wih serious corrosion with my own two eyes. So have
several other people.

If Todd Sager still has that head off, I'll happily run down there and
shoot some pictures and post them.

-Uwe-











From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Sat Feb 21 10:29 CST 1998
From: AWE16VR6 at aol dot com
To: gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com
Subject: Re: Debate: G11 versus G12 antifreeze
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:12:43 EST
Organization: becnet.com
 

<<Sorry to re-open this topic, but I just had a very interesting debate
with the local VW/Audi Master Mechanic and all-around Teutonic Guru
[...]
Does anyone have documentation that I can carry back to him on this
subject, or feel the need to rebut anything he said????

- -Arthur>>

Hey Arthur,
I have a few problems with these statements. First, if the corrosion is a
result of an overconcentrated mixture of G-11, how come the corrosion only
occurs on VR6 heads? I have *never* seen this extent of corrosion on any 8V
or 16V head that I've serviced! Yet, every single VR6 head that I've removed
has had corrosion at the coolant passages to various degrees. I've serviced
4cyl heads that had been run on straight ethyl glycol, propolyne glycol, and
water, or a combination of all of the above, yet the corrosion issue had never
surfaced until the VR6.
Second, I've switched many VR6s to G-12 from either G-11 or the green stuff
and have yet to see related gasket failure. So I think if the proper flushing
procedure is followed, this is not a factor.
I purchase VR6 head gaskets directly from the dealer (warehouse has not
started stocking them), and get the latest supercession. I have not seen this
all metal version that your mechanic talks about. I'm home now, so I don't
have part numbers, but I'll double check on Monday. My understanding is that
the coolant spec change was directly related to head corrosion, which *will*
junk the head if it continues to spread to the fire rings.
I have not serviced a VR6 head that was only run on G-12, so I really can't
say that the reformulated coolant does in fact eliminate corrosion. I can
say, though, that the corrosion issue is a real one, and is happening
frequently. If the G-12 stops it, then by all means do the switch.

Regards,
Todd
Air & Water
VW Tuning
Philadelphia









From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Sun Feb 22 19:25 CST 1998
From: deecee at exit&#&#52;9;&#&#52;8;9 dot com
To: Steve Thompson <was: st140vi at wcnet dot org, now: stevet at toast dot net>
Subject: Re: why did vw switch G11 versus G12 antifreeze
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 20:08:52 -0500
Cc: gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com
Organization: becnet.com
 

At 07:24 PM 2/22/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>From: Holland J. Phillips[SMTP:hjp at pacbell dot net]
>Sent: Sunday, February 22, 1998 7:07 PM
>To: Kevin Collins; turbotim at newdimensions dot com; gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com;
Uwe Ross
>Subject: Re: Debate: G11 versus G12 antifreeze
>
>
>customers), I'm putting my money on the G11 being the culprit (plus, why
>would VW change coolants, anyway, if there was no problem?).
>
>
>According to my dealer, the switch was for strictly environmental reasons.
> Steve
>
>
Steve, I found the TSB that pertains to G11 and G12. It is in Group 19
Number 96-01 Dated 10/30/96
According to the bulletin the change came about in German cars 7-96 and
Mexican cars 01-97
The benefits were improved corrosion protection,improved thermal
stability,improved heat control,improved hard water tolerance, and
enviornmental prtotection. Other than this TDB I couldnot find any other
information as to why the change.

Don









From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Mon Feb 23 15:49 CST 1998
From: "New Dimensions" <turbotim at newdimensions dot com>
To: gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com
Subject: Coolant info
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:32:09 +0000
Organization: New Dimensions Ltd.
 

collinsk at sprintmail dot com (Kevin Collins) writes:

>And Tim has apparently seen a bunch of 'em, so I think the guy
>who was adamant that they "don't exist" is, uh, mistaken.
>Comments anyone?? Tim???

yes we have seen many. Here is a factory info sheet on this stuff
direct from VW


Unlike the previous coolant, this newly developed product
permits a cooling system fill that lasts the service life of the
engine and was designed with all-aluminum engines in mind.

Advantages over previous coolant:
Improved corrosion protection
Improve thermal stability
Improved heat transfer/control
Improved hard water tolerance
Improved environmental protection

CAUTION!G 012 A8D A1 must NEVER be mixed with any other coolant.
Engine damage will result ! G 012 A8D A1 is red in color.The
mixture of G 012 A8D A1 and other colored coolants is
immediately identifiable by discoloration (brown, purple etc.).
If this mixture is used in an engine, a foamy deposit will
appear in the expansion tank/radiator.This mixture is to be
drained immediately and the cooling system flushed as described
below.

Flushing procedure :Engine at operating temperature (older
vehicles with heater valve: heater on). Drain coolant . Apply
compressed air to expansion tank or radiator to blow out
remaining coolant. Close cooling system, fill with distilled
water. Run engine for a minimum of 2 minutes. Drain water and
apply compressed Air to expansion tank a before close cooling
system and fill with appropriate mixture ratio of G 012 A8D
A1and distilled water. Test drive, check coolant level and add
if necessary. Note:G 012 A8D 01 coolant may be used in older
vehicles when the original coolant is drained and cooling system
flushed as described above. Inform customer that a new coolant
Is used and that ONLY water or G 012 A8D A1 be used to
replenish.CAUTION! Never re-use old coolant when performing
engine repairs.Dispose of old coolant properly. Flushing as
specified above, or engine damage resulting from the use of a
mixture of G 012 A8D A1 and other coolants is not covered by the
new vehicle warranty.









From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Wed Feb 25 00:46 CST 1998
From: VR6PAUL at aol dot com
To: gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com
Subject: [gti-vr6] G11 Vs G12 Coolant
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 21:33:32 EST
Organization: New Dimensions Ltd.
 

I checked the "alldata" TSB index and found TSB 199601 "New Coolant" under the
95 Golf with the 2.8L engine listed. According to what someone sent earlier
the TSB basically said the G11 causes corrosion and to switch to the G12. Can
someone confirm this?

Additionally, what mixture is suggested? Someone stated the Bentley stated to
use 35% G12 and 65% distilled water for "warm" areas. However, the G12 bottle
states do not go less than 40% G12. I don't have a Bentley manual, can anyone
shed some light?

Thanks,
Paul
95 VW GTI VR6 37K









From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Thu Feb 26 13:59 CST 1998
From: Uwe Ross <uwe.ross at pobox dot com>
To: GTI-VR6 at dev dot tivoli.com
Subject: [gti-vr6] Re: When was the switch fro G11
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:15:52 -0500
Cc: TH34303 at swt dot edu
Organization: becnet.com
 

> Subject: [gti-vr6] When was the switch fro G11
> From: TH34303 at swt dot edu
> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:29:06 -0600 (CST)
>
> Sorry, I don't remeber who asked about production dates and the G11, G12 debate
> but mine has a build date of 1/97 and I have the G11, dammit! Guess I have an
> excuse to buy a big valve head now!

The cutover is either in 12/96 or 1/97. I've got reports of some 12/96
cars that came with G12, but also some 1/97 cars that came with G11.
Very strange...

I doubut you have an excuse to buy a big-valve head yet. But leave the
G11 in there for another 5 years and you just might...<g>


-Uwe-











From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Wed Feb 25 13:32 CST 1998
From: Adam Newlin <axn110 at psu dot edu>
To: gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com
Subject: [gti-vr6] G12 straight from the horses mouth
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:09:41 -0500
Organization: becnet.com
 

hey all,

Just thought you guys might want to see VW's official explanation on their
web site.
it's at http://www3.vw.com/owners/magazines/parts/partsmain3.htm

Adam











From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Mon Apr 20 15:20 CDT 1998
From: Jason_Leone at amat dot com
To: gti-vr6-digest at dev dot tivoli.com
Subject: [gti-vr6] Re: G11->G12 issues (again)
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:03:47 -0700
Organization: becnet.com
 

Jim,

In order for your factory warranty to be voided by switching coolant, a
couple things must be proved:

1) That an unauthorized party (you) performed the procedure.
2) That due to that unathorized service, something that failed was a direct
result of the coolant replacement not being done properly.

Legal Recommendation: Have a factory authorized repair service do the
procedure. Keep all documentation for your records.

Reality: Do the job yourself, you'll save a lot of money in labor costs.
Get the G12 from an Audi dealership (usually cheaper, believe it or not) or
VW dealership. Inspect the container to ensure that it's the correct fluid.
Go to a drug store, or grocery store and pick up a dozen gallons of
distilled water. Now's a good time to install a low temp thermostat and fan
switch, while you're draining the coolant system. General rule of
thumb-premix coolant and water to a 50:50 solution. Search the archives for
the complete switch procedure (Todd from AWE just posted it about a month
ago). FYI, this is what Chris from ND has to share on the topic:

Last tip for the cooling system-VR6s run HOT. Change your coolant
and install a low temp fanswitch(remove the battery to make it
easy). The thermostat is also a good idea-but I only recommend it
if you have over 60k and you replace all three pcs of the plastic
thermostat housing. These things leak like crazy! replace all the
seals and don't use goop on any of it except at the mount to the
head( I prefer aviation sealer - the brown stuff in the little
can) Anyway, the fanswitch cycles the fan sooner and longer and
end result is that your gauge which normal reads about 230 can
drop as much as 10-15 degrees. It seems that all the car's gauges
read a little different.

O.K., now my opinion about this G11 to G12 changeover. In order
to understand this better, I'll tell you what I know about
coolant. Buy only high quality antifreeze-cheap brands can be
straight ethylene glycol minus important corrosion inhibitors and
lubricants. ALWAYS mix 50/50 with water(preferably distilled) or
follow ratio recommend for your climate. Never top off coolant
tank with straight coolant-preferrably small amount of distilled
water or your 50/50 mixture. Use common sense, large amount
missing means that if you refill, you are going to throw off the
glycol to water ratio, and it is very important. Antifreeze
should never exceed 65%. Exceeding 85% will cause the silicates
to drop out of suspension and goo up to clog the radiator and
reduce heat transfer. VW recommends the water and compressed air
treatment to upgrade to G12 because up to a third of the coolant
is still trapped in the heater core and the engine after you pull
a hose or the drain cock. This flush ensures that you are
removing all accumulated rust, scale,silicate buildup and old
coolant as best as possible. By the way, the blue and red coolant
will foam up and turn brown in your expansion tank if you mix
them or don't get all the G11 out. The degree of corrosion that
takes place in your VW depends upon the type of minerals and
alloys in the engine and radiator, and the acidity or alkalinity
of the coolant. So long as your coolant remains alkaline,
corrosion will be held to a minimum. Conversely, acidic coolant
hastens the corrosion process that occurs between the cast iron
and the aluminum present in the engine and radiator. The
corrosion inhibiting chemicals that are added to you coolant is
what keeps the alkalinity on the high side of the Ph scale.
That's why adding aftermarket wetters and boosters is not smart
because you are altering the already unknown alkalinity of your
coolant(no matter how new, it varies depending on mix ratio,
mineral content, additive content) More important, this
alkalinity ratio doesn't have to be bigger to be better-it just
needs staying power. This is measured as alkalinity reserve(how
long your coolant can resist corrosion) The enemies of your
coolant are heat, dissolved oxygen and minerals which react with
the metal surfaces in your engine depleting the capacity of the
coolant to resist becoming acidic. Therefore, changing the
coolant annually or at least bi-annually guarantees that you
never exceed the coolants ability to resist corrosion. European
car makers like VW specify coolant additives lacking in
phosphates and including borates and low silicates because their
water is harder and it reacts with phosphates to create calcium
and magnesium deposits. The Japanese disagree and specify high in
phosphates and low in borates and silicates because they fear
lack of maintenance will cause borate corrosion. This is the
reason you see the little "phosphate free coolant " only from vw
under the expansion tank cap-or it will void mf's warranty. It
seems that in my opinion, the original G11 coolant must have been
a poor acidic retardant-either from the reaction to the water
installed from the factory and/or an additive package that was
insufficient to go more than a couple of years on North American
water. Mixing the two coolants causes problems because you get
saturation of the silicates and gelling inside the engine, thus
the specific ritual flush with water and compressed air. I firmly
believe that no matter what proportion VW used for an additives
package with the G12 coolant, it too should be flushed out and
refilled every year or two. Considering that it isn't that much
work and it beats playing with litmus paper and rebuilding your
cylinder head. By the way, the corrosion we usually see on VR6s
is surface etching that rubs away to leave pits-almost always
around any flange that attaches to the head, or on the water jack
inlets comprising the head gasket. They're usually good to go
because they are far enough away from critical sealing areas, but
we do replace heads when they are questionable. I really doubt
that the new metal gasket is the reason for the G12. There is
actually no bare metal on the gasket and all the passages have
sealer from the factory around them. I think the reason was
simply that G11 didn't provide long enough reserve capacity and
coupled with poor maintenance, they were getting too many
warranty problems.

And now you know, the rest is up to you. I don't think the
warranty issue should stop you from doing it yourself. When in
doubt, call VWofA, but don't surrender the important info (VIN#,
etc). Be vague, if they want specifics, your inquries will be
recorded in the computer system. Beware.

Jason
'93 SLC


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From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Wed Apr 29 18:12 CDT 1998
From: xjosh <xjosh at one dot net>
To: bovenmye at mr dot med.ge.com (Jim Bovenmyer 4-6640), gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com
Subject: Re: [gti-vr6] German VW coolant info on web...
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 18:57:53 -0400
Cc: bryan at csd dot uwm.edu, gtivr6r at chicagonet dot net, douglas.carter at platinum dot com,
Organization: becnet.com
 

At 05:27 PM 4/29/98 -0500, Jim Bovenmyer 4-6640 wrote:
>I went hunting for some info. This page is in German but seems to have some
>info on the G48 (G11?) coolant. Can anyone translate?
>
>http://www.basf.de/basf/html/d/produkte/gebiete/glysanti/protect.htm

Here's what AltaVista says about the main text:

Glysantine protect Plus/G48 is the nitrite-free radiator protective agent on the
market with most permissions of the Kfz manufacturers. With its thought out
inhibitor package it offers to outstanding protection from frost, rust and
overheating. And which is quite most Kfz manufacturers, should be cheap each
driver.

Permissions:
Glysantine protect Plus/G48 is recommended by prominent car manufacturers:
Audi, BMW, German Federal Armed Forces, KHD, MAN ONE, Mercedes Benz,
MTU, OPEL/GENERAL of engine, Porsche, Saab, Seat, Skoda, VW.

Guidance:
Protect Plus/G48 and water in the ratio 1:1 (or according to mixing table) empty,
rinse cooling system and with glysantine fill and every 2 years change.
(absolutely consider the manual of the vehicle!)


--
Josh
xjosh at one dot net
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From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Wed Apr 29 21:29 CDT 1998
From: Uwe Ross <uwe.ross at pobox dot com>
To: gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com
Subject: Re: [gti-vr6] German VW coolant info on web...
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 22:18:45 -0400
Organization: Ross-House
 

Computer programs still do lousy translations. Here's mine:

***********

Glysantin Protect Plus/G48 is the nitrite-free coolant that has more
manufacturer's appovals than any other on the market. With it's
advanced [corrosion] inhibitor package, it offers excellent protection
from freezing, rust, and overheating. And what's right for the most
manufaturers should be affordable for every driver.

Approvals:
Glysantin Protect Plus/G48 is recommended by the following
manufacturers: Audi, BMW,
Bundeswehr, KHD, MAN, Mercedes-Benz, MTU, Opel/General Motors, Porsche,
Saab, Seat, Skoda, VW.

Directions:
Drain cooling system, flush, and fill with a mixture of Glysantin
Protect Plus/G48 and water in a 1:1 ratio (or according to the mixture
table) and change every 2 years. (It is essential to comply with the
vehicle manufacturer's service recomendations)

***********

-Uwe-

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From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Wed Sep 30 01:48 CDT 1998
From: h.young1 at genie dot com
To: gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com
Subject: [gti-vr6] G-11, does it exist
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 98 05:54:00 GMT
 

The hunt for G11 -- latest in the saga (or, what's the definition of
"absurd"?):

While out at lunch today, I got voice mail from a VW/Audi customer service
rep at VWoA. The message stated that the coolant I needed for my '95 GTI-
VR6 was "definately G11". Okie-dokie.

In the mean time, I'd emailed an order for G11 to Suntrup VW dealership
(www.suntrup.com) specifying ONLY the part number ZVW-237-104. They call me
at work about an hour after VWoA calls and tell me ZVW-237-104 is the part
number for G11 coolant (DUH) and BTW, hadn't I been in there looking for
that last Friday? I said, "Yes," and reminded the parts dude that he'd
told me there was "no such thing" as G11 and he'd never heard of it, blah
blah. He then tells me that ZVW-237-104 has been replaced by ZVW-237-105,
the G48 coolant, and they have that in stock and come and get it.

I tell the parts dude that I just got word from VWoA Customer Service that
what I need is "definately G11". The parts dude tells me that VWoA doesn't
know what they are talking about. (Possible, I grant you.) I remind him
that he told me there was no such thing as G11 even though it is in the
owner's manual, on the filler tank, and there is a part number for it
(tactful, eh?). I also remind him he told me that G48 is not "lifetime." I
inform him that G11 is "lifetime", and so, how can G48 replace it?

Next, I ask the big question: Are the two compatable? Will there be
problems if I try to add G48 to G11? He stammers, finally admitting he
doesn't know. #@$%&@#!!!

I called the VWoA Customer Service person back and left voice mail asking
about G11 vs. G48. We'll wait and see. Hopefully I won't be out if/when
they call back so I can fully discuss this and share my innermost feelings.

|->

HWY
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From gti-vr6-owner at dev dot tivoli.com Fri Oct 2 00:32 CDT 1998
From: h.young1 at genie dot com
To: gti-vr6 at dev dot tivoli.com
Subject: [gti-vr6] G-11, does it exist
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 98 04:13:00 GMT
 

VWoA called back today and gave me the part number for G-11 -- the one I
already had (ZVW-237-104). I tried to explain that the dealers don't know
what that is, no longer carried that, had G-48 instead (ZVW-237-105). I
gave them that part number. VWoA had never heard of G-48 and that part
number did not show up in their computer! Again EMPHASIZED that my main
concern was/is are the same and/or compatable because the dealers sure
didn't know. They said that they'd call back.

Two hours later they called back and said that the part number I gave them
for G-48 was G-11. The two were the same even though they now have a
different part number and a different "G" number on the container. Why'd
they change the numbers? Still sounds fishey to me.

I am now going to have to ass-u-me that all this is right. It still
astounds me that three dealership part's dept's had never heard of G-11,
VWoA had never heard of G-48, and that they change a part number and letter
designator on a substance (coolant) but make no change to the coolant.

I give up. I also wish Arthur Emerson all the luck of the gods in dealing
with these people.

HWY

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