Old Library

Yes, I did the pads(4) myself. No big deal if you are comfortable with a bit of
wrench turning. The only tricky part is that you need a special tool to engage
the slots on  the rear pistons so you can turn them while retracting them.
There is a VW tool that does this, but I just found a socket of the right
diameter and ground it down so it had the 2 required teeth. Another thing, make
sure that you get a clean turkey baster and suck most of the brake fluid out of
the reservoir, otherwise it will overflow when you push in the pistons, If you
are going to replace/turn the rear rotors, I believe that you need new wheel
bearings. The fronts just come off when you remove the retaining screw.

Mike
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Internet: &#115;alernom&#64;us.ibm<img src=/i/dc.gif border=0 width=35 height=15>  IBM: salernom at ibmusm08

Hey all,

I trust your mothers were all well-taken care of this past weekend?

I completed my installation of ATE slotted front rotors and Mintex
Redbox pads all around yesterday (purchased from ND, that bastion of
integrity in the VW aftermarket). I left the stock rear rotors alone.

My car is a '96.5 with 39.5k miles, and still had the original pads.
The front pads had about 6mm of material left but were beginning to
crumble around the edges, and the rears had about 4mm left.  Both front
rotors looked fine, other than a nice lip around the edge of each face.
By the way, the rear rotors looked perfect, and I did _not_ have them
turned.

The work went fine, and the only hitch was retracting the rear pistons
--
I purchased a generic tool, and after a little grinding to get it to fit
the VW pistons, I went to work.  I had always thought that the reason
why the pistons thread in & out was because of the way the hand brake is
configured.  The cable runs up from behind the caliper, attaching to a
lever mounted axially to the back of the piston (I guess).  So, when
applied, the hand brake actually twists the piston, threading it out and
thereby compressing the pads.  Since both rear brakes appear to be
mirror images of each other, and the passenger side piston retracts
clockwise ("normal" threaded), I assumed the driver's side would retract
counter-clockwise ("reverse" threaded), but this is not the case!  The
driver's side piston also retracts clockwise!  This seems backward, what
gives?  Anyone?

So, the checklist for my upcoming CA trip is almost complete:
Brake job (check)
Flush brake fluid (check)
Flush coolant (check)
Refinish all my bent wheels (check)
Finally get my AVO's sorted out (check)
Touch up all my dings and scratches so you Cali guys don't point & laugh
(check)
Clean & detail (maybe next week...)

-- Jay Saathoff

Hi all,

Finally got my host problems solved - missed not being on the list for the past
few days!

Anyway, I just wanted to share my experience with replacing my brake pads (did
the front a few weeks ago, and the rear last night). ...I always like it when
people write about doing a particular maintenance procedure or upgrade that I'm
thinking about doing, so I'll do the same...

A few weeks ago:  I upgraded the front rotors on my '95 GLX to the Velocity
slotted rotors, and Ferodo pads.  I had 62k miles on the stock pads (including
a few autocrosses), and the brake-pad wear indicator FINALLY came on.  Pretty
straightforward installation, following the Bentley's manual, and European
Car's procedure from a long time ago on "Project GLX".

My problems:  Velocity did not have the Ferodo's for the GLX in stock, but they
did have the exact same pads for an Audi.  The only difference:  The plug for
the pad-wear sensor is shaped differently.  I cut the plugs off the new pads,
and soldered on the plugs from the old pads, and everything worked fine.

Second problem:  I read on the list a while back about how easy it is to
mutilate the rotor retaining screw when trying to get it out.  It IS indeed
soft metal.  I followed the advice that I got from the list, and used a
handheld impact driver to get the screws out.  (Of course, I first tried using
a regular screwdriver, and nearly stripped the screw.)  The impact driver
worked great, though.

Third problem:  I wanted to "save" the front rotors, in case I ever needed to
use them again - they weren't in that bad a shape.  But the suckers just would
NOT come off the hub!  (They obviously don't use antiseize at the factory.)
 So, I finally gave in, took the hammer, and WHACKED it all the way around.
 THEN they came off.  Got a lot of dents in the old rotors - guess I'll make a
clock out of them or something.

Installation was a snap.  Used plenty of antiseize between the rotor and hub,
so it won't be so hard to get off next time!

FYI:  I never knew how the brake pad wear sensors work, until I got the old
pads out.  Basically, there's just two wires that go into the pad, and they're
electrically connected with some sort of powder-like substance in the pad.  As
long as this connection is made, the wear-sensor light in the dash stays off.
 When the pad gets worn down near the limit, the power-like substance wears
away, the connection is broken, and the light comes on.  Viola!


Last night:  Installation of rear brake pads.  I wanted to upgrade to the
slotted rear rotors as well, but Velocity's machinist is apparently in the
hospital, and they won't have any rotors for a while! ..Plus, they were out of
the Ferodo's.  They recommended Pagid pads as almost as good, and said on the
rear, it really wouldn't make a difference.  OK, I bought them.  I still
planned to replace the rear wheel bearings, and have the rotors turned, but I
got lazy.  I just replaced the pads, and that's all.  (I figure the bearings
should last through this set of pads, and then I'll replace 'em.  Plus, the
rear rotors looked pretty good - if the new pads wear quicker b/c I didn't have
the rotors turned, the cost will be offset by the fact that I didn't have to
spend more time and money having them turned...)

Problem:  According to Bentley's, when retracting the rear caliper piston, you
have to turn it clockwise as you push it in.  I know there's a tool that'll do
this.  But it's like $60, I think.  According to EC, they used a c-clamp, and
as the clamp turned, it turned the piston.  Great!  So, I planned to use a
brake-pad-piston retractor tool that had a fixed (not floating) end on it,
thinking it would work like a c-clamp.  It didn't.  Once it got tight up
against the piston, it wouldn't go any further, and the piston didn't rotate.
 My (crude) solution:  I tightened up the retractor, then used a pair of
lock-jaw pliers "lightly" clamped around the piston to turn it about half a
turn.  Tighten up the retractor, and turn the piston some more, and so on.  I
noticed that I really didn't even need pressure on the piston - merely rotating
it caused it to retract.  So, it took a lot of care and a few extra minutes,
but it worked!


Results so far:  The car stops, so I'm happy.  I haven't wailed on the brakes
yet, but it stops as well as it did new, and the brakes don't squeek at all.
 So far, the front pads are not as dusty as stock, but I've heard stories
saying Ferodo's are quite dirty. ...Looking at my rear rotors today, I can tell
(I think) where the high spots and low spots on the rotors are - maybe I
should've had them machined. ...But, I figure in a few days, the pads will have
"fit" themselves to the rotors, and we'll be good to go!

...I didn't flush the brake fluid when I did the pads. ...I replaced it with
Super Blue a year ago, and will do it again next year...  The pedal isn't soft
at all, and I won't be doing any track events until next year anyway!

Sorry for the longwinded message!  Just thought I'd share.

Any questions?

Dave

&#97;nderson&#64;msai.mea<img src=/i/dc.gif border=0 width=35 height=15>

My rear pistons had to be threaded back, simply tightening a clamp won't
work.  Buy the generic tool (under $10), find the side that fits best, and
file off the two extra tabs that get in the way.  You'll understand when you
see it.

> -----Original Message-----
&gt; From:	Lin, Gary [SMTP:&#71;ary.Lin&#64;wang<img src=/i/dc.gif border=0 width=35 height=15>]
> Sent:	Friday, September 04, 1998 11:13 AM
&gt; To:	&#39;gti-vr6&#64;dev.tivoli<img src=/i/dc.gif border=0 width=35 height=15>'
> Subject:	[gti-vr6] RE: Changing front brake pads
>
> Get a large C-clamp (6-7").
>
> > > tool to push the piston into the caliper housing...  is this really
> > > necessary or can it be done with a generic tool?
> >
> Gary Lin
> --
> For info on: how to subscribe & unsubscribe, the list's tech/how-to
>     library, etc.  see:   http://www.panix.com/~aqn/GTI_VR6/gti_vr6_list/

Hi Jay -

Are you sure they needed to be threaded in?  I believe he was referring
to the fronts, which only need to be pressed in with a C-clamp.

I agree the rears need to be threaded in, and that the Bentley even
warns that parking brake mechanism damage can result from pressing them
in.

Cheers,
- Bob T.

Oops, my bad.  Neglected to read the subject.  Right -- the fronts just
require a C-clamp, or very strong thumbs.

*WARNING  LONG, RAMBLING POST*

Well, dudes,

Since the list is pretty slow, I thought I would post some experiences 
from yesterday as I replaced my brakes pads and set about flushing the 
old brake fluid......

I had some Mintex redbox pads that needed to be installed so after 
jacking up the car (98 GTI VR6), and opening the Bentley, I proceded 
just about the time the Northern California rolling blackout hit my 
area.  No problem. since it was a nice day the sun was shining into the 
garage.  The front pads came off without a hitch, and the new ones went 
back in with no difficulty.  I simple C-clamp was used to compress the 
pistons back in.

Here's a pic of how I do it. aqn.

Easy job; requiring only 2 beers.  By the way, this 
car does NOT have the calipers shown in the Bentley manual.  I assume 
that the 98/99 cars have the DE brakes, (not factory painted, of course) 
but my book, which covers A3 cars through 99, shows a different type of 
two-piece caliper.  I did not replace the bolts, which are more like 
threaded pins.  I used lock-tite and torqued them to specs.

The rear pads were hardly worn at all.  I didn't even have to reset the 
piston in the back and the pads dropped right in.  Hell, I didn't even 
have to remove the parking brake cable. Once again, I did not replace 
the bolts.  The manual says to always replace these "special 
self-locking bolts", but they were normal looking bolts with blue 
"locktite" type stuff on them.  Big deal; I cleaned them up and 
re-installed using lock-tite and torqued to specs.  Another 2 beer job. 
  The rear rotors look virtually brand new, while the fronts, after 
17,000 miles are only slightly worn....yeah, I should have probably 
replaced them, but I'll see how it works out for now.

I had painted my calipers with the red Folia-Tec lacquer about two years 
ago and the fronts had faded to a dull, almost orange color.  I had 
plenty of paint left from that job, so I repainted them and they once 
again look great.  I highly recommend that paint for your calipers.  It 
goes on easy with a brush, and I believe you could do 3 cars with one 
kit, or have 5 years worth of touch-up paint for one car.

Now the dumb-ass part (see, I warned you this was a long post).  I had a 
nice vacuum bleeder that I got a long time ago, and it is most certainly 
an excellent tool for bleeding brakes.  It is NOT, however a good tool 
for flushing the brake fluid.  It is a squeeze-grip type of bleeder, 
which creates a nice vacuum and suck the fluid through.  Like I said, it 
is an outstanding device for bleeding brakes.
But it doesn't suck a big enough volume. After I sucked the old fluid 
out of the resevoir with a meat baster and refilled with clean stuff, I 
started pumping up the vacuum and cracking the right rear bleeder.

  I fucking pumped that bastard for 45 minutes, sucking about a 
half-ounce at a time, trying just to get the old fluid through the right 
rear brake....I did eventually get the right rear to pull some clean 
fluid, but my forearms were freaking burning from the effort, and empty 
Budweiser cans and cigarrette butts were strewn about the area. I had to 
borrow my kid's Honda (I wore dark glasses) to go get more beer.
  I gotta get a pressure bleed set up for this.  So ends the dumb-ass 
chronicles, Volume 1.

Lessons learned:
1.  Replacing the pads is pretty easy
2.  The latest version of the Bentley manual does not show a picture of 
these front brakes.
3.  Get a pressure bleed setup for flushing the fluid
4.  If you live in northern California, put the beer in a cooler and buy 
batteries for the garage radio
5.  If you are and old fuck like me, borrow a lift.  The hardest part of 
the whole thing is getting the car up on jackstands with a small floor jack

I apologize for the long post and for re-hashing the obvious for those 
that have a lot of GTI wrenching experience.  But this is the type of 
post that has kept me on this list since 98; the spread of information, 
the thrill of victory, the agony of defeat, etc.......

Regards,

Chris Kramer
--98 GTI VR6--

Though I know it would be best to simply buy new rotors - I'm attending
an autocross school all day Saturday then racing Sunday and can't do it
with my current pads.

So I decided to throw my new pads on the front - took about 20 minutes
last night.
I had to "embed" the pads into the ridges on the rotors - it really
sucked to have to smell my fresh Mintex's burning in.  It stops quick,
and will get me by for now.  Just wish I would have planned ahead and
ordered rotors with my pads.

On the front's, I discovered you can take an open end wrench (7/8"? or
1"?) and "pry" on the old inside pad through the hole in the caliper -
to push the piston in.  I can't believe how easy it was - 20 minutes
start to finish, both sides, without power tools.  Last time I did front
brakes it took me over an hour.

Swapping rotors would have only added a minutes or two to the job.