Old Library

I've recently noticed that, on the driver's side of my '96 VR6, the
carpet is constantly damp (in front AND in rear).  I'm guessing this is
due to some type of water infiltration (the passenger side is always
dry)...

	I will get this checked out soon, but I think someone on the list
experienced this a while back...  any luck getting this fixed ?  What
was the cause ?

Thanks,
Nic.

Nicolas Geadah wrote:
>
> I've recently noticed that, on the driver's side of my '96 VR6, the
> carpet is constantly damp (in front AND in rear).  I'm guessing this is
> due to some type of water infiltration (the passenger side is always
> dry)...

Plugged up sunroof drain or broken vapor barrier in your door.
The vapor barrier is a plastic sheet that is sealed all the way
around the hole behind the interior trim panel on each door.  If
it gets ripped or comes loose, you get a water leak.....

-Arthur

&#77;arker510&#64;aol<img src=/i/dc.gif border=0 width=35 height=15> wrote:
> No, a few years ago when I went to order plastic vapor barriers, the
> dealership told me that the foam is the only thing available.  It's a
> closed-cell foam which fits over the entire door panel area, and is a tight,
> effective barrier on it's own.  It's also reusable.  As I recall, approx.
> $30/door.  No plastic barriers at all.
>
> Mark Rosenkrantz
&gt; &#77;arker510&#64;aol<img src=/i/dc.gif border=0 width=35 height=15>

> Subject: Suspension/Rambling VR6 comments
&gt; From: Tom Der &lt;&#84;Der&#64;CompuServe<img src=/i/dc.gif border=0 width=35 height=15>&gt;
> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 12:12:13 -0500

> Defroster-Air Conditioner deposits alot of water on passenger side
> floorboard when used during rain storms/ not sure what the hell this could
> be. Can also hear water sloshing around in the ductwork-even seems to
> slow/choke the fan/blower motor during hard turns???

Pull the black plastic cowel cover that you removed to get at the ECU to
do the chip and clean out the drains on both ends.  These have been
famous for getting clogged with leaves and other debris since the Rabbit
days.  I've heard of A2s that had their ECU's fried when the water in
there got too high.

> my much loved Pennsylvania built '89 GTI 16V which with 97K has
> interior and exterior trim pieces broke, dropping, cracking,peeling,
> etc...

See my comments to Bob Tillman, same thread.

> also has a bullet hole....

Badge of Honor!  Did you shoot back? <g>  "Warning, Driver carries only
$20 worth of ammunition."

-Uwe-

Tom Der wrote:
> [...]
>Defroster-Air Conditioner deposits alot of water on passenger side
>floorboard when used during rain storms/ not sure what the hell this >could be. Can also hear water sloshing around in the ductwork-even >seems to slow/choke the fan/blower motor during hard turns???

One thing you could check is the plastic tray that sits right below the
windshield and covers the ECU. I had to replace my windshield due to a
crack and when they replaced that tray I had a flood on the passenger
side.
Solution: Their is a flap that goes between the grille of the air intake
and the fender, in my case it was bent up over the air intake. Every
time I washed the car or rain fell = flood. Straighten that flap out
and your problem may go away.
Thanks for the vent time guys.

Peace
DrewG
59000mi happy miles n' smiles.

Rich Adams &lt;&#114;adams&#64;launch<img src=/i/dc.gif border=0 width=35 height=15>&gt; wrote:
>     got in my car after work and noticed that the carpet underneath the
> passenger seat was soaked.  I mean visible water. What gives?!? I know
> it's been raining a lot here lately, but that doesn't mean my car should
> leak! I haven't looked underneath the car yet. Anyone have any clues?

  Here are the traditional VW water leaks that I know of.  I would
  think that they all still apply since the design of the relevant
  pieces have not changed.

  1.  The rain water tray at the base of the windscreen (where the
      ECU sits):  this tray has a drain that drains down into the
      engine bay.  If that drain gets clogged with leaves & debris,
      water may back up and flow into the passenger compartment.

      Cure:  clean out the drain periodically.  (And soon.  In older
      VWs the water from the rain tray can seep into the fuse panel
      area, corroding the fuses & relays & causing all kinds of
      funky electrical problems.)

  2.  The door membrane(s):  inside the trim panel of each door is
      a touch plastic film that is glued to the door, closing off
      the huge opening in the door, so that rain water flowing
      down the glass and into the door cavity is directed to the
      bottom of the door where it drains out onto the door jamb.
      If this membrane is torn or has come unglued or is missing,
      you will get water on the floor, both front and back, of
      that side.

      My 83 Rabbit GTI used to do this a lot when I first came
      to Texas and was living in an apartment.  That was the spring
      of 92, one of the wettest spring in Central Texas in recent
      memory!  Our neighbors got used to seeing me with bucket and
      sponge baling the water out of my car!

      Cure:  replace or reglue the membrane.  (I have a couple of
      diagrams of the the mirror backing trim piece & the door pull,
      showing the locations & orientation of the "barbs" that hold
      them in place:

      [ Rich, I forgot to include the URL when I sent this out to
      austinvw:

      h t t p ://www.panix.com/~aqn/GTI_VR6/gti_vr6/library/body_interior/removing_door_panel/

This URL is now at:
http://www.gti-vr6.net/library/body_interior/removing_door_panel/

      (As usual, for access, use ID: driver  password: hired.) ]

  3.  The sunroof drain channels:  at the back of the sunroof "tray"
      are small holes leading to conduits that drain away any water
      that gets past the sunroof's seal.  If these channels become
      blocked, water will seep into the head liner or drip into
      the interior.

      Cure: I have not had to deal with this, but I would suggest
      maybe poking a length of small gauge electrical [wire] down the
      channels to try to clear them.  This is a risky cure since
      the poking may actually push the conduits off of their attachment
      point at the drain hole, then you'd really be up sh*t creek.

  4.  Windshield gasket.

  5.  The usual assortment of door & window gaskets:  inspect &
      replace if they're hard or cracked.

  6.  The A/C's heat exchanger "drain spout":  it's behind the
      bigger & lower of the three opening in the silver foil
      insulation at the firewall in the engine bay.  Pop that
      out.  Put your finger in there and feel around (steady on, Zeek!)
      and you should feel an round pop-off rubber cap about
      3/4" in diameter, hinged at the top.  Make sure that sucker
      is open, otherwise condensation from the A/C's heat exchanger
      won't be able to drain and will end up flowing into the cabin.
      I have read one report of there being many quarts (!) of
      condensation in there.



Rich Adams wrote:
> I just went out and checked it again. The front passenger footwell is
> completely dry. The wet areas are along both seat rails of the passenger
> seat, and the foot area directly
> behind the seat. The back half of the rear floor mat was soaked.

  Sounds like the membrane in the door panel has sprung a leak then.
  It probably came unglued somewhere.  See 2. above.

Rich Adams wrote:
> So, it looks like the next order of business is to examine the membrane
> mentioned below, the seals around the door, or the underside of the car.

  Ooops, sorry, I forgot to mention an obvious solution/possible
  fix related to this:  check the drain hole(s) at the bottom of
  the door and see if they are clogged with gunk.  If they're clogged,
  water could collect in the door and seep past the membrane
  and the door trim panel into the cabin.  I imagine you would
  hear water sloshing around inside the door if it's not draining...

Rich:

  The leak could be from the plastic skin behind your door panel(s).  If
for some reason the plastic has been damaged the car will take on some
water.  Usually the skin is destroyed with speaker installation or glass
replacement on the doors.  The doors are designed to have water leak into
them from the weatherstripping along the bottom of the glass but this
plastic skin keeps the water from getting to the interior.  The dealer
sells the plastic skin for around ten dollars.  Highly recommended over
patching the plastic.

  The other unlikely culprit for the leak could be the drains in the cowl
area are clogged with leaves.  Bruce Nadig (yellow Corrado) had clogged
drains at our first meeting that I unplugged.  His cowl area was filling
with water.  A3's have a better leaf guard than the A2's.

Jim

just got back from the dealer. They discovered the problem to be
a leaking seal in the HVAC intake assembly, underneath the
passegner side cowling. They resealed it. As a result, they also
discovered and promptly removed the pollen filter I had installed
a la Uwe Ross. The foam filter with the rubber band. They said
that might have contributed to the problem.  It's hard to say,
but they didn't hassle me about it and it was all covered under
warranty.  As far as what actually got into my car, I guess it
was rain water. I may have damaged the seal when putting in the
pollen filter, but who knows. I was very careful. And I don't
even know exactly what seal they are referring to. I'll
investigate later.

Well, there you have it. One more thing to keep an eye on. They
have to replace the sound insulation underneath the seat as
well.

Rich
97 GTI VR6 "aquaman" edition

with the rain/high humidity of the past 24 hours, my car took on water,
right on cue. Telltale dampness behind passenger seat. It's now at the
dealer for it's third visit for the same problem. This time around, I was
talking to Salem (cust. relations manager) and he said there were a couple
of other cars in for the same problem and the most likely culprit is a
leaking evaporator casing. He mentioned something about the hose. At least
this time around they promised to strip the carpet and test the AC/rain
scenario to try and pinpoint the leak. First two times they replaced the
drain plug and resealed the HVAC housing.

Here's hoping the third time's the charm, eh?-

Rich
http://silverstone.fortunecity.com/studebaker/201/

my car's water retaining ability has been resolved. The source of the water
intake?  The floorboard plug behind the passenger seat was knocked loose
after coming into contact with a rock or somesuch object. The service
manager showed me the underside and sure enough, the plug was partially
ripped, and large dent surrounded it. This allowed water to seep in in the
rain. Anyway, the damage was repaired and the carpeting replaced, get this,
all *under* warranty. Why? Well, the first time around, there was definitely
an AC leak, which was repaired. However, they agreed to replace the carpet
under warranty, but had to order it. So, this time around, they fixed the
plug, replaced the carpet, and wrote it up as a follow up to the prior
visit.  They did give the AC system a thorough going over to make sure there
were no leaks at all.  On the work order, there was no official mention of
the plug damage, except in the comments.  They even provided a rental car
for me for overnight because they didn't get the car finished in one day.
This was a suprisingly good dealer experience, to say the least. It also
helped that I worked directly with the customer relations manager, Salem.
He's a good man who likes to see his customers happy.

so let this serve as a warning to those with a lowered suspension. The oil
pan also had a few scrapes on it. So, be CAREFUL what you drive over,
although in this case I'm not sure what happened, since nothing came to mind
as to what I may have hit..

RAA
'97 GTI VR6
"no more water wings" edition
http://silverstone.fortunecity.com/studebaker/201

I've got a nice water leak in the rear hatch.  I took the trim off on the inside, and found that the leak
 is coming from the key/lock mechanism (the foam insulation that resides there was wet and
 moldy).  Anyone have this problem yet?  Can it be resealed easily?  The water is making it all the
 way through the trim and is coming out at the inside hatch handle.

I have the Canadian spec rear strut bar for sale if anyone is interested.  Can someone help me out
 and let me know if it can be fit to U.S. spec cars?

Thanks in advance.

Mark L.
1995 gti-vr6 (104,000km/64,250miles)

In a message dated 4/21/99 10:48:31 AM, &#109;ancini&#64;epix<img src=/i/dn.gif border=0 width=35 height=15> writes:

<< Guys just wondering if this happens with anyone else or if its just me!!
On the inside of the rear window  i seem to get drip runs after i wash  the
car. The odd thing is i happens about a day or to after. I checked for leaks
but found nothing!
Just wondering if anyone else had this ( if you can call it ) problem.
Guy
 >>

I had this exact problem, dealer took 3 trips and two new windshields before
they found out it was just the bolts/screws/rivets(?) that hold the rear
spoiler (above the rear windshield) on.  Put a hose to it at high pressure
and watch.  That's how i diagnosed the problem (before the dealer did BTW!).
Hope it helps,
Nate

well, looks like the source of the water leak was a bad seal at the base of
the windshield on the passenger side. But damn, it took 'em long enough. And
this AFTER they took out my headliner to check the sunroof drains :\. Now I
just gotta make them cover it under warranty, since the initial problem
appeared before my 2/24 expired.
Anyways, I'm obviously going to have to replace the sound insulation under
the passenger seat. I'll leave the carpet itself alone. Anyone know where to
get the sound insulation and about how much it'd cost me?

For older cars with a traditional plastic vapor barrier, VW has
an upgrade.  Approx. cost is $30. per side, and is made out of
(approx.) 1/4" foam.  Heavy-duty, reuasable, and cuts down on noise.
All-around "worthy" and suprisingly affordable.  =)

The change was made around mid 1997 or 1998, as I recall.  Anyhow,
my 1995 now has them on.

Mark Rosenkrantz
&#77;arker510&#64;aol<img src=/i/dc.gif border=0 width=35 height=15>

sunroof car?

it's pissible the sunroof water drains , there are 4 of them could be
clogged...


think of it this way, the 4 points of the sunroof, each have a drain tube
that comes down from inside the track of the sunroof, each drain tip comes out at
the respective corner of the car..if you have water BEHIND the driver's seat,
it is possible the drain tube is clogged from some debris, or detached.
Your other possibility is the top corner of the door where it seals the
rubber door seal. Hinges deteriorate(if older car)   seals shrink(if older car)
and water can get in.

Open the sunroof, and take a waterbottle with one of those "trendy" sport
tops to it, that pop out, and shoot some water into each corner of the sunroof,
there is a drain under each side of the windflapper, and to the rear of each of
those. 4 Points of the sunroof.

If the water does not dump out below the A pillar(for the fron drains) on
each side, or under the car towards the rear quarter(when testing the rear
drains) then is is a drain problem.... squeeze the tips of the drain to unclog it,
debris gets in there a lot.... see if it helps...

If the water dumps into the passenger compartment still, it is detached,
because it was once clogged and filled and pulled off.... it happens...

if this is not relevant and water drains appropriately from each corner, then
use some chalk on your door seal, where the seal comes together on the B
pillar, up in the corner, shut your door, open it... do you see chalk on the door?
if not, it's a seal.

If you do, check anyway by pouring water over the door to seal portion and
see if it disturbed the chalk mark....

Also, make sure your roofline gasket is intact...  the roof to seal side
sometimes shrinks faster due to UV....and the problem may be the
roofline portion of the door seal...


hope this helps