Old Library

Just came back from Garrett's house, been there allllll day.  I can now
swap out a vr6 ECU in 2 min!!!!
Every thing went pretty smooth, except for one error code that seems so be
hard to eliminate (having to do with the TB, I will not disclose that in
this fourm ;) ) We spent much of the afternoon/early evening trying to
programs to eliminate it, G-man is close to getting it.

Performance:
the instant thorttle responce of the TB is insane, it pulls the car realy
hard...with the stock tb the first 20% of its opening does not allow any
more air in then when your car is idling!!!!  The ported TB starts letting
in air at 1% on its opening!! I think this is one mod that makes the 1500 -
3000 rpm range come come alive

more later, I need rest

jim

Although I doubt you will gain any HP from using a ported TB, one thing is
for sure , you will notice a big difference.
My girlfriend drove the car, and I quote "Holy Shi*"!  The throttle
response is lightning quick. It plants you right in your seat.

The Mod:
The TB is very simple to remove and install, we have taken step by step
pictures. The newer TB's (all OBDII ???) do not have to be epoxied, because
they are a solid casting. The older ones should be as a precaution in case
one would grind to deeply.  To actually do the porting one would use a die
grinder or Dremel tool (worked surprisingly well), with a rounded high
speed cutter, small drum sander, polisher, a medium (4" ?) bench vise, and
a steady hand!

The OBDII Chip:
Is the chip ready yet? No. Garrett is very close, however there is one
error code that is being very stubborn.  Help is on the way, Garret should
soon be recieving some new software tools that will give us much more
detailed information (closer to the vag1551 tool).  Because we tried about
6 different chips to eliminate this problem, I dont have the best mappings
right now (there are some occational flat spots...). Once the error code
situation is solved, he will get back to perfecting the performance - that
is the easy part:)  I am guess-tamating 3-4 weeks from now.

Cautions:
-Its' easy to f' up your TB if you aren't realy carefull.
-If you do a core exchange, chances are you will have to take your car to
be reset by a VAG1551 because your ECU is     calibrated to your TB.

jim

Andy,

>>  1.  Do you know what kind of welding process I should be asking for,
      or do you know what kind of "epoxy" I need to  use?


I would stay away from welding, the heat might cause some warping or damage
to the TB.  Epoxy would be fine.  It is possible to accomplish this without
epoxy too, the epoxy just gives you a margin of saftey.

>>  2.  If you want, you can email me the pics with maybe a short write-up
      of the de-ramping process and I will put them in my gti-vr6
      Web archive.
Garrett has most of the pics, I have a few still undevloped ones. but
belive it or not, we forgot to take a BEFORE pic!!!
duh!


Since my 96 TB did not require epoxy I can only offer you advice from
someone who has.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
, I would get the highest quality metal epoxy you can
find. Look in the MSC or McMasters catalogs they sell machine tools and
materials, expect to pay $30 to $40 for a small amount of this stuff. Take
the TB off and remove the 2 phillips screws that hold the throttle return
diaphram on. Rough up the bottom of the TB with a file or coarse paper,
make
sure to get everywhere you will need to add epoxy. Spray the TB off with
brakecleen. Apply the epoxy generously too fill the area under the "ramp".
Bolt the TB back on and drive the car for a few days, this cures it
completely sitting right above the exhaust manifold. Remove it again and
remove the throttle plate, marking which side is which with a Sharpie
marker. Make sure you use the correct size screwdriver they strip easily.
Grind away, being carefull not to touch the area where the throttle plate
rests. Reinstall the throttle plate use loctite. get it snug and check that
it rotates freely then tighten completely. Reinstall and floor it!! Hope
this helps, I used epoxy that costs $100 for 8 oz. and havent had a
problem.
I think you could get away with JB weld if it cures correctly.
Jason Whipple
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

(although I found that I did not need to remove the throttle plate at all,
secondly you dont want to port all the way into the "seat" or where the TB
plate rests at idle so having the plate in there acted as a nice guide for
me)

jim

I finally got my ported stock TB unit in today!

It was done by Mike Jones, thru Ken Weidmann, if anyone else wants one-
Mike warned me that turnaround is slow, so this would be for anyone with
a ton of patience-  it took about 1.5-2 months for mine to be done-

The quality of work looks great-  the port is smooth, and it looks real
professional.  The TB was clean as a whistle too-  a nice treat after
getting some 5.0L parts before that looked like they were fished out of
a sewer.

Installation was a snap.  The only bitch was that the TB is held on by
some allen-headed bolts.  My advice:  buy the PROPER 3/8" drive allen
bit for it, and life will be a LOT easier.  I mickey-moused it a bit
with some allen keys, and I got it off and on, but the right 3/8
attachment would've cut install time by about 20% (it only took me about
20 mins. or so, and I've NEVER taken anything out aside from the
airbox!).

Going for a drive, initially, it idled a bit rougher, but the computer
seems to have compensated for it already after about 15 minutes.  It's
still far too wet here to do any speed testing though.  It does feel
like it takes off more willingly now than it did before.

All in all, for $150 (porting), and $100 (core-  I kept my stock, though
any other ones might have to give their core, I don't think Mike has any
TB's left), it seems like a good mod.  I'll let the list know when I get
some sort of performance driving impression, like next week when it
stops raining here.  That Is a huge bump that's taken out-  you
definitely need to use filler when porting out the OBD-I unit-  the
porting extends about 1/4"+ under where the metal ends!

Does anyone perchance know how to adjust the throttle cable on the GTI?
It's about as taut as it was originally, though I just wanted to know
how to do it if I want to mess wiht it in the future.  The svc. manual
only covers the diesel cable adjustment :(

I didn't need to reset the ECU with the VAG-1511 or whatever the heck
the tool is called, as the manual said-  the check engine light didn't
trip, at least, though the car IS an OBD-I 1995.
Do you think I should reset it anyways?  It's just a trip to the
dealer..  or can you reset it yourself?  I do have the garrett chip in
there, so maybe that took care of it (optimized to run w/ ported TB).

Thanks!

-Dave

Dave,

------------ Previous Message from  &#115;asakikojiro&#64;earthlink<img src=/i/dn.gif border=0 width=35 height=15>  on
02/03/98 10:30:29 PM ----------
>I finally got my ported stock TB unit in today!

Great!

>  That Is a huge bump that's taken out-  you
>definitely need to use filler when porting out the OBD-I unit-  the
>porting extends about 1/4"+ under where the metal ends!

Not necessarly .  By boring out your TB that much your not going to gain
any noticable amount of power. You get the power from removing the ramps -
that's all you need to cut.  In other words,  you will not notice a power
difference between a de-ramped TB and an over-bored one (unless your using
forced induction).  You can go nuts and port the thing till it's paper thin
and put in a larger plate too, but the real noticable "off the line" power
comes from de-ramping - which shouldn't make epoxy a "must" but rather a
saftey.

>I didn't need to reset the ECU with the VAG-1511 or whatever the heck
>trip, at least, though the car IS an OBD-I 1995.
>Do you think I should reset it anyways?  It's just a trip to the
>dealer..  or can you reset it yourself?  I do have the garrett chip in
>here, so maybe that took care of it (optimized to run w/ ported TB).

No, Your OBD I system does not need to calibrate your TB, OBD II does.


jim

  When I replaced my stock TB, I used a metric Allen wrench - all in all -
20 minutes - and that was because I dropped one of the Allen screws down
behind the engine where it came to rest on top of a suspension component
:|>    Had to get a long magnetic screw finder - the antenna type and lay on
top of the engine to get it.  Lesson = put a rag under the TB, it will catch
the screw if you drop one!!  It worked - I dropped another one after that
and saved myself 15 minutes!!
  Anyone interested in a stock OBDI TB can make me an offer - I doubt if I
will be using mine anytime soon!
  I installed a European TB on my OBDI VR6 and HAD to adjust the throttle
cable - it was idling at 2000 rpms after install.  It's a snap - no pun
intended - there was a snap ring retainer i pulled up and off with needle
nose pliers and slid the cable a bit and put the snap ring back in a few
slots over from where is was before!!  All in all about 1 minute to figure
out, 2 minutes to find the pliers and another 1 minute to adjust!!  If
you're not impressed with German engineering yet - you will be after that.
Bob

> >porting extends about 1/4"+ under where the metal ends!
> Not necessarly .  By boring out your TB that much your not going to gain
> any noticable amount of power. You get the power from removing the ramps -
> that's all you need to cut.  In other words,  you will not notice a

Oh, that's not what I meant :)
The ramp is removed, and Mike did quite a bit of extra smoothing work of
all the rough contours in there, fore AND aft of the throttle plate-  I
was inpressed with the attention to detail-  highly recommended!!

The major portion of the porting relates to the ramp being removed, no
larger plate, etc., was used.  On my OBD-I stock TB though, there
definitely isn't wnough metal to grind off the bump without going all
the way through to the air on the other side!  From the side view, the
underside resembles a cllassic coke bottle, tapering upwards where the
bump is-  almost like they began with a cylinder, and pressed the
underside up to form the hump.  Now, it's a perfect circle, all the way
through.

> comes from de-ramping - which shouldn't make epoxy a "must" but rather
I've heard on OBD-II TB's, it isn't needed, though with my stock TB
(OBD-I), it's DEFINITELY a necessity.  I'll try to snap a pic of the
side view of the thing when I get a chance, and scan it-  the 'missing
metal' pushed up is very prominent there.

> No, Your OBD I system does not need to calibrate your TB, OBD II does.

Okay- thanks!  I needed to clear that worry from my head :)

Today, I finally got to test out the driving impressions on a dry
surface.  I let my friend (previous owner) drive it as well, and he
noticed a completely differnet feel about the car as well.  IT's much
more responsive to gas on the initial start, and seems to rev more
smoothly all the way to redline.  It IS harder to modulate the throttle
smoothly during a shift, and from the light though-  you CAN drive
smooth, though it takes some getting used to-  like I said, a completely
different feel.
I LIKE IT :)  Much more sporty, and less of the 'bog' feeling.  I still
think the car needs a lower rear-end gear though to be perfect.  A lower
RR gear, and a slightly higher 5th gear would really hit the spot now-
I'm quite happy with the engine now.

Does anyone have headers on their VR6's by the way?  I was wondering
what these things do for performance..

-Dave

--
For info on: how to subscribe & unsubscribe, the list's mailing errors,
    list archive, etc.  see:   http://www.panix.com/~aqn/gti_vr6_list/