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Adjustable cams: why they may make a difference in the VR6

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[gti-vr6] Re: cam sprockets AWE16VR6 <AWE16VR6@aol> Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:01:20 EST
Re: [gti-vr6] cam sprockets David E Shreve <deshre01@engr.uky> Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:48:08 -0500 (EST)
[gti-vr6] Re: H*elp adjusting cam sprocket please AWE16VR6 <AWE16VR6@aol> Thu, 14 May 1998 09:46:10 EDT
[gti-vr6] wasRe: Cams Indexed!!!!!/now adj cam sprockets "Supreme Power.net" <gshock@linkline> Mon, 28 Jun 1999 16:32:53 -0700



From gti-vr6-owner@dev.tivoli Thu Feb 26 08:14 CST 1998
From: AWE16VR6 <AWE16VR6@aol>
To: gti-vr6@dev.tivoli
Subject: [gti-vr6] Re: cam sprockets
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:01:20 EST
 
In a message dated 98-02-26 04:02:19 EST, you write:

<< David E Shreve wrote:
 > 
 &gt; On Wed, 25 Feb 1998 &#97;qn&#64;dev.tivoli<img src=/i/dc.gif border=0 width=35 height=15> wrote:
 > >   Adjustable sprockets allows adjusting the timing of the intake valves
 > >   with respect to the timing of the exhaust valves.  The power
 > >   characteristics of an engine is affected by the duration between
 > >   the "lobe center" of the intake valves & the exhaust valves.
 > >   That duration can be changed using "adjustable cam sprockets".
 >
 > If this is true, [...]
 
   Oh, trust me, it's true.  (Famous last words.  |-)
 
 > [...] then why do so many 8V VW owners have adjustable cam 
 > sprockets?
 
   Beats the shit out of me.  Why do so many people have the P-Flo
   filter when a K&N stock replacement is just as good, probably
   even better?  I am inclined to think that it's the herd mentality
   and/or the "internal combustion mod" mentality (if I have to pay
   big bux for this mod, it must be good).  It is also possible that
   I missed something major vis-a-vis adjustable cam sprockets,
   in which case I would love to know what's I'm missing.
 
   Oh, I just remember another thing:  whether or not adjustable cam
   sprockets would do any good do not depend on the number of valves.
   It depends on the number of cams, or more specifically, it depends
   on whether or not the intake & exhaust valves are operated by
   separate cams.  I _think_ the 8V VW motors are single cam?  But
   if for some reason they are DOHC (with only 2 valves per cylinder,
   one intake one exhaust), then it will be meaningful to have
   adjustable cam sprockets.
  >>

Hey Andy,
Adjustable sprockets are used to alter cam timing in relation to the crank
timing in VWs.  There is an adjustable sprocket offered for the E30 M3 that
alters the timing between the two cams (in/ex), but since the VWs only have
one cam driven at a time (technically even in the VR6) the idea is to alter
cam to crank index.  Opening the valves earlier or later in relation to piston
position can alter the powerband enough to compensate for drivability
problems, or too maximize various areas of the powerband for specific use (ie
road course racing).  Since, as you mentioned, the VR6 has both in/ex lobes on
each of the two cams, you cannot alter each cam's timing in relation to the
other.  However, you *can* (theoretically) alter both cams' timing in relation
to the crank.  This is why there are adj sprockets for both the 8V and 16V
VWs, even though both have a single cam sprocket design.  The 8V sprocket
directly drives the cam (containing both in/ex lobes), and the 16V sprocket
drives the exhaust cam which in turn drives the intake cam via a chain.  
Another reason that just occurred to me, which is a condition on the 16Vs, is
that ignition timing will be altered on the VR6 if the sprockets are adjusted.
The ignition is controlled by the cams in both dist and non-dist VR6s.  The
distributor is run off the front cam via a keywayed drive, and the coil packs
are fired via a cam position sensor on the rear cam sprocket.  Altering the
cam timing will alter ignition timing, too, in this case and ignition timing
is not adjustable on either VR6 version.  Yet *another* reason to forego the
adjustable VR6 sprockets (if they do in fact exist).

Todd
Air & Water
VW Tuning
Philadelphia





From gti-vr6-owner@dev.tivoli Thu Feb 26 08:01 CST 1998
From: David E Shreve <deshre01@engr.uky>
To: aqn@dev.tivoli
Subject: Re: [gti-vr6] cam sprockets
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:48:08 -0500 (EST)
Cc: mailing list - GTI VR6 <gti-vr6@dev.tivoli>
 


On Wed, 25 Feb 1998 &#97;qn&#64;dev.tivoli<img src=/i/dc.gif border=0 width=35 height=15> wrote:

>   Oh, I just remember another thing:  whether or not adjustable cam
>   sprockets would do any good do not depend on the number of valves.
>   It depends on the number of cams, or more specifically, it depends
>   on whether or not the intake & exhaust valves are operated by
>   separate cams.  I _think_ the 8V VW motors are single cam?  But
>   if for some reason they are DOHC (with only 2 valves per cylinder,
>   one intake one exhaust), then it will be meaningful to have
>   adjustable cam sprockets.


I HAVE THE ANSWER!!!  The adjustable sprockets don't do much for power on a 
SOHC car.  What they do is allow you to tune the rpm where the moto 
"comes on cam", or starts getting full benefit from the cams.  Thus 
sayeth a friend of mine with a titted out 8V A3...big valve head, Schrick 
cam, etc.  Also, it's not a major pain in the ass to adjust the sprocket 
on an 8V as it would be on our VR6's.

-Dave
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From gti-vr6-owner@dev.tivoli Thu May 14 08:48 CDT 1998
From: AWE16VR6 <AWE16VR6@aol>
To: gti-vr6@dev.tivoli
Subject: [gti-vr6] Re: H*elp adjusting cam sprocket please
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:46:10 EDT
 
 <<       I've been driven around with a TT 268 cam and TT cam sprocket for a
while now......great power above 3500 all the way to 7000.  I've been doin
quite a bit of normal driving lately and will be doing so for the next few
weeks.  Normal driving being shifting around 3500.  Since the car is still
somewhat stock till 3500 (except for the chip, airflow, and exhaust) I would
like to adjust my cam with the sprocket so that I can actually use the power I
paid for!  Q is: when adjusting the sprocket, do i go towards the negetive or
positive degree variation to adjust the cam to give me low end power?  I want
all the low end I can get until I have to go to the track, then I'll switch it
again.  For now though, I just want to adjust it for low-end!  Plus I want to
see the diff. it makes.  Also, it allows for a variation of 8 degrees.  Should
I go all the way?  Any other tips/suggestions?  Thanx ahead of time guys!
        Matt>>

Hello Matt,
Retarding the timing is for a high end power shift, advancing is for more low
end.  However, I'd adjust it in single degrees to determine if the cam needs
base indexing first.  In other words, cams can sometimes be slightly off in
the grinding, which can be corrected with an adjustable sprocket.  You may
find that a setting other than 0 degrees gives you an improvement in both
torque and hp.  The way to maximize hp (rather than torque) is by taking a
compression reading accross all cylinders at each sprocket setting.  The
highest reading will yield the most hp.  This is ideal for road course racing
setups.  
There will be a point with the TT sprocket where you are doing nothing but
blowing unburnt fuel out the exhaust, since it permits a full tooth each way
of indexing (8 degrees).
Have fun.

Todd
Air & Water
VW Tuning
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From gti-vr6-owner@ccsi Mon Jun 28 18:41 CDT 1999
From: "Supreme Power.net" <gshock@linkline>
To: GTI <gti-vr6@cobra.ccsi>, Garrett Lyon <shmerito@yahoo>
Subject: [gti-vr6] wasRe: Cams Indexed!!!!!/now adj cam sprockets
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 16:32:53 -0700
 
Garrett-
yes, adjustable cam sprockets are made for the VR6 by
Motortechnic.  These cam sprockets allow for + or - 4 degrees of
cam timing.  They cost about$500 and they do not like selling
them unless they are installing them because they do not want
people to copy their design. As far as power goes,they supposedly
work well on high duration cams by bringing peak hp and torque
lower in the rpms by advancing the timing or so that is what I've
been told.  But usually when you advance or retard the timing you
loose either bottom end or top end depending on which one you do-
you rarely gain both.....

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------

>Does anyone know if someone makes adjustable cam sprockets for
> our VR6,cause I haven't found any in all my researching for
> performance parts.

Garrett




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Russell 
http://www.supremepower.net
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