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[ Mike Bigus &lt;&#103;tivr6r&#64;chicagonet<img src=/i/dn.gif border=0 width=35 height=15>&gt; wrote: ]
ben t wrote:
>
> I have been told by 2 tunning shops that the quietest aftermarket exhaust
> in the business is the Brospeed system.  I have also been told that it will
> rust out in about 1-2 years so I will be buying another muffler in a couple of
> years.
The Brospeed system is the quietest but yeilds the most power and torque
over the ENTIRE RPM range.  Rust out in 1-2 Years?? I seriously dought
it
considering its made entirely of 304 stainless steel, not to mention
the header is ceramic coated to help reduce under hood temps.  The
header
will generate 19 HP through out the entire RPM range, and the CAT back
exhaust generates another 12 HP.  Combined figure 18-20 total HPs.
The Header runs $550 while the exhaust runs $600.  The exhaust system
uses 2-1/4" tubing while the Techtonics uses 2-1/2".  Velocity caries
the Brospeed stuff.>>

Alright, Mike... this I have to respond to.  Do you have any idea what 18-20
*real* hp can do for your car?  Not magazine hp, not "total" hp (pre and post
peak added up), not crank hp calculated with a 20% correction factor, but
honest to goodness real hp?  18-20 is A LOT!!  Even 5 real hp is very
noticable... the Brospeed header back system produces nowhere near 18-20hp.

A certain list member (I'll let him reveal himself if he wishes) volunteered
his GTI VR6 to Bosal as a test car to develop their complete exhaust.  In
exchange they gave him a system for free.  They also provided dyno sheets from
the session.  They, too, claimed astronomical numbers (18% increase if I
recall correctly), but funny thing was that their sheets didn't show this...
kind of.  The hp sheet showed a 1-2 hp gain at various parts of the curve, and
the torque sheet showed similar gains.  However, the superimposed curves sheet
revealed the elusive 18% gain... on a Euro GTI as stated in the tiny print at
the bottom.  Now, I don't know why the system should make any more power on a
Euro version VR6, but the whole deceptive pitch turned me off.

Then we finally installed the complete system on the list member's car.
Overall, nicely constructed system... except that the header leaked badly at
the head, was incorrectly jigged and sent the midpipe on a slant towards the
side of the center tunnel, and the exhaust tips were 2" too short.  This was
about a month ago, so the system was well out of prototype phase.  Anyway, I
expressed my concern to the Bosal rep (very interested in the install since
the customer was being sponsored by them at the Englishtown event), and he was
very apologetic.  Power increase was described by the customer as "minimal".

So, while this system is certainly the quietest aftermarket VR6 exhaust out
there (really no louder or different in tone than stock), has all the
appearance flair that some people look for, I have been less than overwhelmed.

<<Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:10:25 +0000
From: Ben T &lt;&#73;bnt&#64;erols<img src=/i/dc.gif border=0 width=35 height=15>&gt;
Subject: [gti-vr6] RE: Brospeed Exhaust

  I too read that article and am amazed at the numbers if they are
accurate!  I spoke to Velocity at length about this system and they told
me of these numbers about 2 years ago( EC sure is slow).  The numbers
are + 1 or 2 horses till  4500 when they jump to 5, 11,10,12,11   to
6500 rpms by 500 rpm increments.  That is phenomenal and for 450 bucks
you can't beat that.

  My only concern is  that the torque numbers are negative until 5000
rpm's then you  gain 18,12,19,18  at 6500 rpms.   At 4000 rpm's you
loose 12 ft lbs.   I don't know about you but that is a serious hit!
The other numbers below 4500 are from -2 to -4 ft lbs.   Again there is
a trade off;  you start off slower but at 6000 rpms you have 12 horses
and 19 ft lbs extra.

  Todd mentioned that his customer didn't really notice a big difference
so I wonder if those figures are correct?>>

I'm not sure the customer in question is still on the list since totalling his
GTI, but we installed a full Brospeed header and exhaust on his 95 VR6 as part
of a sponsorship deal between us and Bosal.  He is a multiple bracket winner
and is amazingly repeatable with his drag racing, and if I recall correctly,
the whole system made no difference in his times or speeds.  Perhaps he will
chime in if he's still here.  Either way, it sure ain't making 12hp peak
increase with exhaust alone.  More EC filler.
It was quiet, but fit rather badly.  It came very close to hitting the center
tunnel wall, and did when driving.  They sent us another header to try to
correct the center pipe angle, which helped a little.

Todd
Air & Water

Brospeed Impressions.

Cat-back system, polished rear muffler, twin straight 3 inch tips.  Not sure
if the mid-muffler and straight pipe is stainless or not.  Doesn't matter here
in California.  Deep, rich sound.  Loudest between 2200 and 3000 RPM.  Gets
quiet about 3000 rpm.  Cruising speeds of 65+ the noise level is the same as
stock, maybe a little richer.  Not intrusive at all.
Slightly improved engine response, no loss of torque that I can detect on butt
dyno.  Recommended.

I had a local muffler shop install the system.  They did a fairly good job,
but now the pipe is rattling on the axle beam so I need to get under there an
find out what the deal is there.  I had the front pipe welded to the cat.  The
clamp arrangement that comes with the kit is a joke and won't seal very well
at the cat junction.  The stock hangers worked fine, although one might be broken
now that I hear this rattling.

Got it from Velocity.  Good service, maybe not the best price.
The sound is simply beautiful.

Chris Kramer


>Impressions?
>-Paul
>-97 DE, needs exhaust
>
>Chris Kramer wrote:
>
>> VR6 content:  I have a new sound system.  Brospeed. Volume controlled by right
>> foot.   I should rip out the radio to save weight.
>> Chris Kramer
>> --98 GTI VR6--

Hi,

My '97 GTI-VR6 w/ 113k miles needs an exhaust.  The OEM center muffler,
a.k.a. the suitcase, has rusted out and the local VW dealers want almost
$400 just for that muffler.  ECS Tuning.com will sell me a stainless steel
Brospeed Sport "Cat" Back system for about the same price so it seems like a
no-brainer to go that route.  At this point ( 113k miles) I'm not concerned
with improving the performance of my GTI over stock.  I'm more concerned
with quiet and no future headaches.
[...]

Hi Michael:

I have the Brospeed exhaust system that ECS Tuning sells.  I picked it up
for $280 shipped a long time ago from a place online that was clearing them
out.  If I were you, I would go with a Magnaflow system instead.  The
fitment on the Brospeed is horrible.  My mechanic had to do a number of mods
to make it fit properly & even then, I'm still not too happy with it.  It
has also started to rust a little (mind you, I live in San Franciso, CA so
the weather is mild compared to where you are in the winter). The Brospeed
is a decent system (I had maybe a 5hp gain in mid-top range), but not at the
price that ECS Tuning is selling them. Good luck & let know if you have
further questions.

-VA
97 Jetta GLX

You've had rust on a Brospeed Stainless Steel exhaust?  I'm very surprised.

As far as fitting problems go, I was under the impression the Brospeed is
made by Bosal who manufactures the OEM system for VW.  I'd expect that they
should be able to get the dimensions correct if anyone can.

If you got your system on close out I wonder if the vendor sent you the
correct system or just sent you one that was close.  It can be hard to tell
two similar exhaust from one another when they are in pieces on a shelf
compared to trying to install them on a vehicle.

In any case the only reason I'm looking at a Cat-back system is the OEM
center muffler is outrageously expensive.  Even Midas couldn't fix the OEM
system at a reasonable price.

Thanks for your feedback.

Michael

No info on ECS tuning, but I've got the stainless Brospeed/Bosal exhaust on my car and I can't say enough
about it.  It fit right, was easy to mount ( the pita is getting the old one off) and the 2 muffler system
sounds very nice, but is very quiet.  The single outlet coffee can tip was a bit much for my taste, so I
cut it off and put a smaller one on.


-T.

I just went to the website to double check if the exhaust you are looking at is the same as mine, and it
is, except that the one you are looking at has the nicer twin tips, but isn't fully polished.  When I was
looking at them, the twin tips were more expensive than the single, and mine came fully polished.  I'd
rather have the one you are looking at, but aside from those items, it is the same as what I'm running and
it is great.  I know your not looking for more performance, but you'll still notice an improvement in the
bottom end with this system.  I sure did.

-T.

Mike, I have a Brospeed exhaust on my 98, and I love it, but I have to say,
it did not fit correctly and my local muffler shop had to do some modifying
to one of the hanger rods to make it hang right.  Even now, it occasionally
rattles on the axle beam.  I also had it welded to the catalytic converter,
since the clamp setup that came with it sucked and leaked.  I can say the
ECS tuning has always been a good place to deal with.

That said, I love the sound of the Brospeed system.  I have the version with
the twin 100mm tips and those fit perfectly in the bumper cutout just like
stock.  I would buy it again, but take it to a good muffler shop to have it
installed.

Hope this helps,

Chris Kramer

Mike,

Have you considered the Magnaflow system?  I have one on my Jetta and I am
very happy.  Here are a few links:

CLIP 1
http://www.kuiack.net/GenDUB/Users/Kooz/Videos/MKIII_VR6_Magnaflow.WMV

CLIP 2
http://www.kuiack.net/GenDUB/Users/Kooz/Videos/Kooz_Fly_Bys.WMV


CLIP 3
http://www.kuiack.net/GenDUB/Users/Kooz/Videos/Kooz_Takeoff.wmv



CLIP 1 (snipped)
http://snipurl.com/id4v

CLIP 2 (snipped)
http://snipurl.com/id4o

CLIP 3 (snipped)
http://snipurl.com/id4i

The brospeed exhaust is very subdued in tone.  No
droning etc, you'll be happy with it.

I've had extensive experiences with ECS, from way back
10 years ago when I lived in Ohio and before they were
an internet supplier to recently ordering things over
the web from them.  They've always done an excellent
job, I've been very pleased...

[...]

2nd) When you do your exhaust, buy a replacement
oringal cat-extension pipe clamping sleave.  I bought
the TT exhaust, and the directions indicate to reuse
the existing sleave.  No dice.  It's split in half and
the bolts snapped off when I tried to remove it. I'd
imagine with over 100K on your car, the same will
happen.  Do youself the favor and buy one ahead of
time. Probablly no more than $30.  Install is fairly
easy, but check to see if you have to cut the final
pipe like I did the TT.  Make certain to have your saw
handy if so.

I'm not covered by the shop's insurance so I can't use a lift here at work
and I'm too old to be laying on my back under my GTI cutting an exhaust off.
Been there, done that, decades ago.  So either one of the mechanics here at
work or the local midas shop will be doing the installation for me.

I don't see a listing on ECS's website for the cat-extension pipe clamping
sleeve that you said I should get.  The only thing I've found is a Universal
Stainless Steel Flex Section in various I.D. sizes x 4 inches.  Can those
list members who've installed the Brospeed exhaust tell me if I need either
the cat-extension clamping sleeve or the Stainless Steel Flex Section?

I briefly had a Magnaflow exhaust on my '95 GTI VR6, the thing droned
something aweful.  Before I got the magnaflow, I even contacted a few
other GTIVR6 owners who had magnaflows and they said the magnaflow was
only loud when you got on it.  Mine was loud as soon as the needle moved
off idle.  Maybe my '95 was different, I don't know.  I replaced the
magnaflow with a brospeed.  The brospeed was much quieter, but still
louder than stock.  When you got on it, the brospeed made a really sweet
ripping sound.  Generally, the sound from the brospeed was sharper,
where the magnaflow was sort of boomy.