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> Subject: [gti-vr6] '98 vr6 rough idle
&gt; From: "Micic, Mladen" &lt;&#77;laden.Micic&#64;PSS.Boeing<img src=/i/dc.gif border=0 width=35 height=15>&gt;
> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 14:27:29 -0700
&gt; Sender: &#111;wner-gti-vr6&#64;dev.tivoli<img src=/i/dc.gif border=0 width=35 height=15>
>
> hi, i know that the advise is to research archives prior to writing, but
> i was not able to find anything that relates to this.
>
> i have a '98 gti vr6 and i get rather rough idle on cold starts (idle
> oscillates between 900 and 1100 rpms up and down)  and sometimes the car
> even dies after running for about 10 sec.
>
> i heard something about vw having a bulletin for dealers that talks
> about this problem and solution being replacement of the on-board
> computer.
>
> i contacted my dealer and he said that he never heard of such a thing
>
> can anyone send me (or direct me) to additional info on this (if true)
> or has anyone had similar problems. i took the car in for service couple
> of times but they said everything is working fine

There is a "secret" factory update to the chip in the "AA" ECU that was
used in the late 1997 models that is supposed to cure problems like that

But AFAIK, all 1998 models use an "N" ECU and I've not heard of a
similar update for it.

Check your ECU number, instructions at
http://wso.net/ross/misc/ecm.html; if the part number ends in AA,
there's an update, but I don't believe there's a published bulletin;
your dealer has to call the VW Tech Line in order to get it.  They also
have to send your ECU to Michigan to get the update installed -- VWoA
does not trust it's dealers to open up an ECU and replace a socketed
chip!

-Uwe-

PS:  A Garrett Chip based on the AA ECU factory update is currently
being tested.  Garrett has not said whether he will switch to this code
in his next regular release, but this "special" chip will be available
to existing AA G-Chip owners that need it as an "update".  Feel free to
contact with any further questions on this.

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I posted a letter last week detailing my rough cold idle and I got only one
response so I am going to try again.  I would appreciate any advice or
comments about what to do, if anything, and if I should even worry about it.
 My 98 GTI VR6, with 1780 miles on it, idles like a damned cold farm tractor
when it is dead cold.  This morning I started it and got out and listened to
the exhaust while it warmed up.  It had moderately wavering RPMs, (between 800
and 1000) and ran pretty rough, missing and loping.  AFter exactly 90 seconds,
it suddenly smoothed out and ran beautifully.  This problem is getting worse
and seemed to start getting worse after I pulled the cone out of the airbox.
Can this have anything to do with it?  I just wonder if I should even mention
it to the dealer when I go for the first service.  There is no way to
duplicate it unless you let the car sit for 8 - 10 hours and I am so afraid
they will dick something up.  Since it runs so good after this ratty warm-up
period, I am reluctant to get too excited about it.  Does anyone have a
similar experience, or advice? I would very much appreciate any information.
Thanks in advance for any reply,

Chris Kramer, 98 GTI VR6, Blown-Alchohol-Funny Car-sounding-idle-for-the-
first-90-seconds-when-cold Edition
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I have a 98 also. It does exactly the same thing. On occasion it will even
stall after the initial high-speed burst the engine winds up to 2000rpm or
so and then winds down to idle speed.

One of these days I'll take it in and have them change the ECU.

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Oh, and I also have my cone and resonator removed from the airbox, and it
hasn't made a difference in the idle.  Before and after, it was the same.  I
just have that great roar when you get the engine up in  the 5000+ rpm
range!!!!

Glen
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Chris,

When I bought my car back in February, the car ran great and idled nice and
smooth.  I had an incident where water got into the engine and bent 4 rods and
shot 1 right thru the block.  The engine was replaced and when I got it back
(3 weeks later), it ran like shit.  I brought it back and they replaced a few
vaccum lines and something else (I can't quite remember the name of the valve,
but I will check when I get home) and it still ran like shit!!  Brought it
back one more time and they said that had called it in to VW and they were
going to rplace the ECU.  It was replaced and still idled rough, granted not
as bad.  I now take my car to a different dealer and he compared it to another
'98 that was in and the idle was the same-rough.  So, I guess the '98's are
prone to this.  I now have a Garret v11 and the idle is a little higher, ~
50-100 rpms.  The idle isn't so bad now, but it is still a little shaky at
times.  The thing I don't understand is why did the first engine idle so
smoothly?

Glen
'98 GTI-VR6 "No more speed boating" edition
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Chris Kramer &lt;&#77;ach825&#64;aol<img src=/i/dc.gif border=0 width=35 height=15>&gt; wrote, in part:

> My 98 GTI VR6, with 1780 miles on it, idles like a damned cold farm tractor
>when it is dead cold.

My '98 with 10,450 miles (1/98 build date) does the same exact thing. It
sounds like an old jallopy first thing in the morning.

>This problem is getting worse
>and seemed to start getting worse after I pulled the cone out of the airbox.
>Can this have anything to do with it?

I don't know, but I have my cone out too. There was some talk on this list a
while back about an ECU upgrade, but I was told it only applied to certain
cars ('97s, I think). VW supposedly had the ECU problem ironed out by the
'98 model year.

>I just wonder if I should even mention
>it to the dealer when I go for the first service.  There is no way to
>duplicate it unless you let the car sit for 8 - 10 hours and I am so afraid
>they will dick something up.

I have mentioned it casually to my dealer, but they have never done anything
about it. I don't want to leave the car there overnight just for them to
say, "The rough idle is normal. We couldn't find anything wrong."

>Since it runs so good after this ratty warm-up
>period, I am reluctant to get too excited about it.

My sentiments exactly. I just drive very gently (below 3,000 rpm) until my
oil temp hits 190. After that, it's "Watchout SUVs!"

-Jason
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> I have a 98 also. It does exactly the same thing. On occasion it will even
> stall after the initial high-speed burst the engine winds up to 2000rpm or
> so and then winds down to idle speed.
>
> One of these days I'll take it in and have them change the ECU.

my 98 does the same thing, on a cold start it revs up to 1800 then choppily
descends to normal idle. i've got a date w/ the dealer next tues. will keep
you posted on what the prognosis is.

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>  My 98 GTI VR6, with 1780 miles on it, idles like a damned cold
> farm tractor
> when it is dead cold.  This morning I started it and got out and
<SNIP>

Mine starts like that every moring when I go to work.  It's got around 1500
miles.  I'm thinking that's just what happens when it's cold.  I'm no
mechanic, though.  :)

Mike
'98 GTI VR6

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I got a lot of responses yesterday about my post detailing my rough cold idle.
It seems quite a few of the 98s have this.  Thanks to all that responded.  I
am not quite as worried about it now, although I will have the dealer check it
out at first service time.
 I did take one member's advice and checked everything under the hood for
tightness and security; hoses and electrical connection, etc.  No defects were
noted.
  I will keep everyone posted on how this situation develops.  Again, thank
you all who responded.  Cheers,

Chris Kramer, 98 GTI VR6, Funny Car-Cold-Idle Edition (sans flames)
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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My car has had the same problem since brand new, &, big surprise, it is =
a '98 as well.  I asked my dealer's service advisor about it, & he said =
that it is a normal operating condition.  He said that the engine loses =
its idle codes every time it is shut off.  The idle codes are reset when =
the engine is started again, but it will not set idle codes until the =
engine is sufficiently warm.  Therefore, the car does not idle well when =
cold, but once the car is sufficiently warm, the idle suddenly smoothes =
out.

This makes sense to me, but it is only what my service advisor has told =
me.  I have not made any effort to substantiate his statements.  For the =
most part, he seems reputable, knowledgeable, & professional.  However, =
I do have some doubts about his statements with regard to this problem =
because he consistently demonstrates a reluctance to address small =
problems with the car.  He has a tendency to dismiss them as acceptable =
& normal unless I push him to deal with them.  I haven't pushed him on =
this because the car does runs perfectly when it warms up, & I recently =
put a chip in it.  If I push him on this, he will probably dismiss any =
warranty claims on the basis of the chip although the car's had this =
problem long before I put the chip in & long before I modded the air =
box.

Michael Keith
Pasadena, TX
'98 Jetta GLX
'85 Golf SCCA ITB/DSP
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:17:27 EDT
From: &#77;ach825&#64;aol<img src=/i/dc.gif border=0 width=35 height=15>
Subject: [gti-vr6] Responses to Rough, Crappy Idle Letter

I got a lot of responses yesterday about my post detailing my rough cold =
idle.
It seems quite a few of the 98s have this.  Thanks to all that =
responded.  I
am not quite as worried about it now, although I will have the dealer =
check it
out at first service time.
I did take one member's advice and checked everything under the hood for
tightness and security; hoses and electrical connection, etc.  No =
defects were
noted.
  I will keep everyone posted on how this situation develops.  Again, =
thank
you all who responded.  Cheers,

Chris Kramer, 98 GTI VR6, Funny Car-Cold-Idle Edition (sans flames)


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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>My car has had the same problem =
since brand new,=20
&, big surprise, it is a '98 as well.  I asked my dealer's =
service=20
advisor about it, & he said that it is a normal operating =
condition. =20
He said that the engine loses its idle codes every time it is shut =
off. =20
The idle codes are reset when the engine is started again, but it will =
not set=20
idle codes until the engine is sufficiently warm.  Therefore, the =
car does=20
not idle well when cold, but once the car is sufficiently warm, the idle =

suddenly smoothes out.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>This makes sense to me, but it is only what my =
service advisor=20
has told me.  I have not made any effort to substantiate his=20
statements.  For the most part, he seems reputable, knowledgeable, =
&=20
professional.  However, I do have some doubts about his statements =
with=20
regard to this problem because he consistently demonstrates a reluctance =
to=20
address small problems with the car.  He has a tendency to dismiss =
them as=20
acceptable & normal unless I push him to deal with them.  I =
haven't=20
pushed him on this because the car does runs perfectly when it warms up, =
& I=20
recently put a chip in it.  If I push him on this, he will probably =
dismiss=20
any warranty claims on the basis of the chip although the car's had this =
problem=20
long before I put the chip in & long before I modded the air=20
box.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Michael Keith</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Pasadena, TX</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>'98 Jetta GLX</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>'85 Golf SCCA ITB/DSP</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:17:27 EDT<BR>From: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:&#77;ach825&#64;aol<img src=/i/dc.gif border=0 width=35 height=15>"&gt;&lt;/A&gt;&lt;BR&gt;Subject: =
[gti-vr6]=20
Responses to Rough, Crappy Idle Letter<BR><BR>I got a lot of responses =
yesterday=20
about my post detailing my rough cold idle.<BR>It seems quite a few of =
the 98s=20
have this.  Thanks to all that responded.  I<BR>am not quite =
as=20
worried about it now, although I will have the dealer check it<BR>out at =
first=20
service time.<BR>I did take one member's advice and checked everything =
under the=20
hood for<BR>tightness and security; hoses and electrical connection, =
etc. =20
No defects were<BR>noted.<BR>  I will keep everyone posted on how =
this=20
situation develops.  Again, thank<BR>you all who responded. =20
Cheers,<BR><BR>Chris Kramer, 98 GTI VR6, Funny Car-Cold-Idle Edition =
(sans=20
flames)<BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Listers, A few months ago I started a long thread about the rough sputtery
cold idle on my 98 VR6 (see archives)  For what it's worth, I put the
resonator cone back into the top of the airbox last week, and the car has
started cold and idled smooth ever since.  I don't know if this solved the
problem, or if it is coincidence, but I thought I would pass it on.
 Whipple Mount report: FWIW,  I've had mine in for a couple of months.  I did
not notice ANY increased vibration in any RPM range including idle.  Shifts
are much better.  I'll never part with it!
 10 month of reading the posts and analizing suspension impression have
convinced me to go with Eibachs and Bilsteins, but my refrigerator blew up
yesterday, and I had to dig in to the suspension pot to replace it.  At least
the beer survived.

Chris Kramer
98 GTI VR6,
North California
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&#77;ach825&#64;aol<img src=/i/dc.gif border=0 width=35 height=15> wrote:
>Listers, A few months ago I started a long thread about the rough sputtery
>cold idle on my 98 VR6 (see archives)  For what it's worth, I put the
>resonator cone back into the top of the airbox last week, and the car has
>started cold and idled smooth ever since.  I don't know if this solved the
>problem, or if it is coincidence, but I thought I would pass it on.

And lest everyone run out and put their cone back in to head off this
potential problem, my '98 has been without the cone since the beginning
and my car starts down to -20F (lowest it was while I was in Montana) with
no throttle application and idles smoothly.   (Jumps to almost 2k for a
few seconds and then settles close to 1k after a few seconds)  I've had
zero cold starting, or idle problems.  I've got the .10 in there too
of course.

	ian
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