Old Library

Anyone out there had to replace the alternator on the VR6?  My car crapped
out today and left me stranded!  Just curious as to what it cost so I don't
get ripped off.  If it's big bucks, like the $600 I was quoted by one
dealer, you can bet that this thing is for sale!  It is just one big money
pit.  Is it me or do all these cars turn to shit at about 60K miles? Why is
it that everything that can go wrong is going wrong?  Besides the
alternator, I need to replace the clutch slave cylinder, the sunroof is
messed up, the rear brake calipers are freezing up, and the driver's side
window sounds like a blender with ice in it when it is going down!   Sorry
for the rant, I'll feel better when I have some form of transportation.

Later,
Greg
95 VR6, fast but always broken edition............


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Dude!  Sorry to hear you car's got you down, and especially
that it's left you stranded.  That just plain sux.

I can't say that mine has turned to shit yet, however I'm
willing to believe that various owners have had different
luck with different cars.

600 bux sounds like a lot for an alternator, even with
labor.  Granted, I've never replaced one in a VW so I don't
know what's involved in getting in there to do the job.  I
could believe that a rebuilt alt might cost up to $200 (but
that still sounds like a lot) and labor is another hour or
two (say $60 to $120.)  But that's just a guess.

What's up with the rear brake calipers freezing up?  I had
to replace the rear calipers on my '89 16v (at about 120k
miles) when the parking brake no longer worked right, even
in warm weather.  I just wanted to make sure: are you
talking about the parking brake freezing in the "set"
position when the weather's cold (that is, below freezing)? 
If so, check the rubber boots around the brake cables where
they hook up to the calipers.  If the boots are cracked, it
allows water in and that might mean it could just be a cable
replacement.  About $20 per side for the cable (as I
recall), plus labor (it took me about 45 minutes to replace
one).  I ordered my cable through Mike Potter...

About the clutch slave cylinder - what are the symptoms? 
Mine has "creaked" since about 6 months old when both the
car and outside temps were warm; I just haven't had the
desire to change it yet.  What is going wrong with yours? 
(When I had a chance behind the wheel of your ride a coupla
months ago, thanks BTW, I noticed no bad symptoms of clutch,
brake, or anything going wrong...)

Anyway, good luck and I hope you get back on the road soon! 
Let me know if you have other questions...

Cheers,
- Bob T.
  '96 GTI VR6 122k miles

[...] 23 lines deleted

Hi Josh -

I agree that it looks a little tight.  However, even if you
had to unbolt the front motor mount and jack up the motor a
bit, would it still cost $400 in labor ($600 reported by
Greg, minus $200 rebult alt cost, granted estimated)?  $400
in labor, at a $60/hr shop would get you over 6 hours of
labor...  Even if you had to unbolt and move the radiator, I
think that 6 hours of labor sounds steep.  I agree that Todd
or Don could probably shed some light here...

I'm just saying that perhaps the $600 figure included the
cost of a brand-new Bosch unit.  Maybe he could save if he
found out that a rebuilt was cheaper...

Cheers,
- Bob T.

[...] 31 lines deleted

[...] 44 lines deleted

The right side and the front are disconnected. This way the engine can be
jacked up to slide the alternator out. I believe the suggested repair time
is .80 tu.  It is possible to purchase a brand new alternator from an
outside Bosch supplier and save a bundle. However the draw back is the
warranty coverage. Any part installed at a VW dealer is covered for 1 year
at any VW dealer in the US.

Don
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<snip of decees stuff and all>

Okay, for you EC subscribers, remember that article on the external
Bosch regulator one could buy for the Bosch alternator?  One of the
benefits was the you got a new set of bushings.

So, a question for you electronic wonderkinds:  can one just replace
the bushings in the alternator and have it run just fine?  I mean, what
does one do to "rebuild" the alternator?  It can't be that hard, right?
Can one just replace the bushings while the sucker is still in the car?

For those who didn't read the article, I will sum it up below:

The internal regulator for Bosch alternators ain't high quality.
Group 6 Performance came up with a neat little external regulator
that'll actually give you the amps advertised (from personal experience
I will say that I had a brand new 90 amp rated at only 65 amp!),
and even a bit more.  Because the regular is of a much higher
quality, the battery also is charged more evenly and carefully.
The life of the alternator and the battery are said to be increased.

Okay, this is what I read, and as we all know, it could be complete
bull, but it sounds right.  One more question:  anyone check the
quality of our ground strap and cabling?

Jud.

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First off, just because the alternater is rated at 90 amps doesn't meen it
constantly puts out 90 amps.  It is kind of like audio amps, as long as it
can produce it for a split second, it can be rated at that.  Now, they are a
little more picky about alternators.  The Bosch will but out 90 amps at
maximum revolutions.  As an example, I have a Street Wires High Power Audio
alternator.  It is rated at 200 amps.  When bench tested it put out 130  amps
at 4000 revs.  Now that is a lot but not near the 200 mark.  To hit 200 we
had to push it to 6000 revs.  Uh, not to many people drive at that kind of
abusive rpm for long periods of time, but the alternator did do it.
    When an alternator is rebuilt, usually just the brushes are replaced.
Most rebuild kits come with just the brushes.  The older Bosch alternators
required the brushes and voltage regulator to be replaced as they were one
unit.  It really depends on what has caused the alternator to go bad.  If it
is really dead, the motor may be fried, but this is unlikely.  I would
recomend the rebuild kit.  It is cheep, and you should be able to do it with
the alternator on the car.

[...] 38 lines deleted

I don't know where you get your info, but you cannot rebuild an alternator
without first removing it and dissassembling it. A rebuild is a lot more
than just brushes. Diodes go bad, bearings fail, windings short out, etc. A
remanufactured alternator only uses about 2 of the original parts. There is
no "motor" in an AC Generator (SAE term for alternator). You should do some
research before giving out incorrect advise.
                 Bob C.

Joel Rybacki wrote:

    When an alternator is rebuilt, usually just the brushes are replaced.
Most rebuild kits come with just the brushes.  The older Bosch alternators
required the brushes and voltage regulator to be replaced as they were one
unit.  It really depends on what has caused the alternator to go bad.  If it
is really dead, the motor may be fried, but this is unlikely.  I would
recomend the rebuild kit.  It is cheep, and you should be able to do it with
the alternator on the car.




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I was refering to the most common and economical rebuild available.  For the
most part, the brushes will be the first thing to go and will USUALLY go before
the rest of the unit.  My comment about replacing the brushes and voltage
regulator takes care of the diodes.  My info may be a little old but it comes
from a mechanic who has been working with VW's since the end of WWII.  If the
alternator is fried then yes the unit must be disassembled and gutted.  I find
it hard to believe that a Bosch alternator would be dead in 4 years though.

[...] 25 lines deleted

I probably should have not have stated my earlier post like I did.  What
I was trying to get across was that the first thing you should check is
the brushes because they tend to be the first and most common thing to
go out on alternators.  Bob is right about rebuilt alternators being
more than just the brushes being replaced.  Usually the only thing
original is the housing.  And yes, there is no motor in an alternator.
I was refering to the wire wraps.  Thankyou for catching me on this one
Bob.

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Quoted, verbatim, from the Group 6 Performance web site
(www.group-6.com/B-4.htm).

Bosch Alternator/Regulator Conversion

How do you know if you need this conversion? If you have
a Bosch alternator, you need it. Sooner or later you will have
trouble with the voltage regulator, and this kit will correct/prevent
that. With the new style Bosch alternator, a very common
problem is to go out to your car and find the battery dead. You
have the car towed or jump started, then taken to your
mechanic. They check the car out and say that everything is fine.
They may even suggest replacing the battery. You do, and 6
to 8 months later it happens again. Our conversion kit will cost
less than the first service call, and will save you the
inconvenience of being stranded. Because the battery is kept fully
charged at all times, even with lots of short trip driving,
battery life can be extended by as much as 33%. It also increases
the maximum output of the alternator by about 20%. So if
you have a killer stereo, or driving and fog lights, or for any reason
have lots of power-hungry electronics on board, alternator
or battery trouble is just waiting to strike.

With our Regulator Conversion kit, you can have the best of
both worlds. We start by replacing the brush holder with a new
one, complete with new brushes. Since the brushes are the item
that wears out on alternators, you have now virtually brought
the alternator to as-new condition. Then our special wiring harness
plugs into the new brush holder and connects to a new
Electronic Voltage Regulator. The entire conversion takes only 20
minutes to install. You don't even have to remove the alternator to
make the conversion! We supply step by step instructions, the brush
holder, wiring harness, regulator and mounting screws.

If you don't wish to do the installation yourself, any mechanic will
be happy to do it for a nominal charge. This kit has been
tested in the heat of Arizona and the cold of the Arctic. It helps
your alternator produce more current and keeps your battery
fully charged and operating at peak for a much longer time. If your
particular car does not have a convenient place to mount the
new regulator close to the alternator we can even supply a longer
(6 Ft.) wiring harness at no extra charge. This conversions
takes almost no time to do and makes a lot of sense. It will pay for
itself in longer battery and alternator life, no regulator
failures and by not leaving you stranded with a dead battery.

We will very shortly be rebuilding Bosch alternators, starters and
distributors. These units will be completely re-manufactured,
using only the highest quality bearings and seals. We replace more
components with new parts during our re-manufacturing
process than virtually any other rebuilder, and offer one of the best
warranties in the business. We can also offer a re-manufactured
alternator with our famous regulator kit pre-installed, giving you
the best of both worlds with no extra effort.

 Bosch Regulator Conversion Kit
                                       $125.00


Jud.



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As you may remember from my post a few days ago, the alternator light on my 95
GTI with 47K miles came on. A quick check showed the battery was getting no
juice.  I took it to a guy I met at an auto-x who works on watercooled
Porsches and was driving a 914 so I thought it would be in safe hands.  To get
the alternator out, he had to remove the passenger headlight, air box, auto
tensioner and other miscelaenous parts from the front end.  He said it took
him 2 hours to remove.  I took the alternator to recommended rebuilder.  He
said there were 3-4 things wrong with it and could not believe  1.  there was
a 120amp alternator in the car "I use a 90 amp generator to power this
building!" and 2. the cost to him to fix that stupid thing would be about $170
plus labor , etc.  I should have known I was in trouble when the alternator
had "Made in Great Britain."  I called to dealer to get a good laugh--reman
alternator $440.00.  Parts Place in Mich--$299.00.  Local foreign auto parts
store $250.00.  Therefore I chose the last option.  It was a genuine Bosch
reman with a 2 year warranty.  This one had "Made in Germany" on it, so I
trust this one a little more.  Took it back to get re-installed, had the V-
belt replaced while he was at it--$64.00 from same auto parts store.  For
labor charges, I guess he checked out some huge reference manual for hour
estimation. He charged me 2.7 hours--$110.00.  I know it probobly took him
longer to do.  

I called the VW line to complain, a $700+ new? alternator should not die after
47K.  I've got 15 year old Porsche and 13 Year old RX-7 and they still have
original alternators.  

Bottom line, I got my alternator replaced for less than the dealer wanted for
the alternator alone.  Find a local place you trust and shop around.

Paul

On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, Ian Frechette wrote:

> Any suggestions?   The library mentions all the money to
> be saved going through an outside Bosch distributor.. 
> Such as???? 

I picked up an alternator for my old Cabriolet at a local import parts
shop a few years back. It was a genuine Bosch and the price was
competitive with the no-names from Autozone, etc. You may want to try some
similar places locally.

Sometimes my local VW dealer parts department also has Bosch branded parts
at a considerable savings versus VW branded parts.

FWIW, I bought that alternator at Saybrook Imports in Cincinnati. They do
ship. You can find information at http://www.importautopart.com/.

Josh